Higanbana 1st Night Ch. 1: Mesomeso-san

I’m in kind of an interesting position, because I just finished Umineko’s first episode just a couple of days ago, and now I’ve just finished Mesomeso-san, so it’s really easy to compare the two works.

I think this is the first thing I’ve read by Ryukishi where I didn’t have issues with the pacing. He can write a chilling horror scene like nobody’s business, but I’ve never been a fan of his slice-of-life scenes, so Higanbana automatically gains points for skipping over all of that, getting straight to the point and telling the story it wants to tell in just a couple of hours.

And what a couple of hours those were. I’ve always been a fan of stories where you’re forced into the mind of someone with a corrupt sense of morality, so Kanamori’s segments were, though occasionally infuriating, absolutely fascinating, especially when taking into consideration the contrast between the image he shows to everyone else, and the one he shows to Marie. It’s a literal difference between night and day.

I’m wondering, as I move on to the second chapter, if this contrast between inward and outward selves will be a recurring theme. Marie’s conversation with Higanbana about becoming friends certainly seems to indicate that it will be, that there are still aspects of personality to explore for characters both new and old.

Overall, though, what I’m most interested in is this group of youkai that have so far only been hinted at. There’s a lot of potential for world-building there, and I look forward to (hopefully) getting a more in-depth look at it moving forward.

So for now, onto the second night!

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Mmm, so far of what I’ve read the theme of public vs private life hasn’t been toooo prevalent in chapters 2 and 3, but I expect it to crop up again, we still have many chapters to get through. It’s kind of a very popular topic in Japanese sociology/psychology so I don’t doubt it. What does keep coming up though is this idea of perceptions; how we’re seen by others and how we present ourselves to others. Might be something to keep in mind going forward, I definitely like the angle of trying to identify overarching themes.

Thanks for joining us btw Suika! If you’re willing I’d love to hear your thoughts on Umineko Episode 1 too, though I dunno if you’re a newcomer to that or not~

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I am genuinely surprised of Ryushiki’s ideas and his way of conveying them to his audience.
The start was particularly intriguing (see Aspirety’s screenshots above), with the breaking of the 4th wall. I am also amazed at how the focus of the majority of the story is on the teacher’s thoughts, and not on Moriya. If Moriya was a real focus, then arguably readers would find it difficult to symphathise with her, as when the author is blantantly trying to gain sympathy for a character, it usually backfires.

Onto the interesting quotes:
_… With just this kind of criminal conduct, I was able to imagine myself _
as having reached a complete level beyond anyone else in this staff room.
… Plenty of different philosophies have questioned how humans could elevate themselves.
How could I elevate myself as a human? How could I be at ease without being looked down upon by others?
But the solution tumbled right under my nose.
To control someone and to stand above them.
By only doing just that, I was able to conquer a complex that had vexed me since childhood.
Not only that, I didn’t feel like I was being looked down upon.
On the contrary, when no students were around, I was immersed in the superiority I felt over my chit-chatting coworkers.

Whenever you ask your friend/co-worker what they did over the weekend or how their weekend was, have you ever considered what are your true emotions/thoughts when you hear their response or what are your true intentions in asking those questions? When you read/watch something akin to a masterpiece (umineko) and thinking that something is the truth to happinness/world/etc, how do you feel when you go about your daily endeavours knowing that the people around you likely don’t know that truth?

People don’t submit to the very depths of their souls.
Until that day comes when they are released, they can only look to lessen their oppression.
That’s why, someday, she will surely betray me.

This rings very true. Can you imagine someone truly submitting to someone in a situation of oppression? What exactly is purpose of crying? Are we programmed to more likely help the weak that we can see?

School illustrates life. For humans who are bullied in school, even after they enter society, things don’t change.
They just take on the same role again.
While in school, humans who can’t break away from the bullies become unable to escape them for the rest of their lives.

I don’t think I entirely agree with this quote because I know people change, but to what extent is another question. That said, I can tell you that dreams is one thing I cannot control (and in fact after reading Chapter 1 & 2 I had some disturbing ones), and regardless how much you can stand up to bullies in everyday life, it is different in dreams…

I understood that cursing someone digs two graves.
If I’m not prepared to lose everything, I cannot have my revenge.
… The resolution to cease being human.
The resolution to throw away all of her life up until today.

Chapter 2 would be a good example. But then again, the resolution spoken of here is only temporary.
It is a gamble.

I have really enjoyed this chapter, especially the teacher’s thoughts (e.g., the one about being in a different dimension at night compared to day). I am surprised once again how many interesting and sophisticated ideas Ryushiki is able to put forth in a convincing matter. And I hope you all enjoy your own journeys and share your interpretations with us.

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ZERO! ZERO! ZERO!

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At last, after months of disappearing from the forums, I finished reading the first chapter of Higanbana!

Alright where do I start… I guess I’ll start off with stuff that I didn’t particularly like.
First of all I wasn’t very much impressed with this story. Mostly because I’ve seen this sort of story be executed better before. Plus I kinda predicted what would happen even before reaching the half way point, so because of that I actually felt that the story dragged on for much longer than needed. This is mostly my fault rather than the chapter’s, because I generally tend to overthink things and thus spoiling myself to what’s gonna happen, without even looking things up.

Second, Kanamori. No no, I know, we’re supposed to dislike him. He’s the “bad guy”. He’s an irredeemable scum. But in truth, I didn’t really find him believable at all. But before I go on, I’m gonna say this now, I’m aware that people like him exist, that there are people who justify themselves the way he does and that not everyone who commits a crime does so for any explainable reason. Having said that, I just don’t like how he was presented. He was half the reason why the story dragged on for me since most of the story was from his perspective and he was most of the focus. I kind of know his character archetype and how he generally should play out and what sort of things he would say. Plus with Ryukishi’s way of writing, most of his thought process became redundant over time. Like, most of what Kanamori thought you could’ve have left it at one to three phrases, instead of 2 pages or something. For me, at least.
I think this is because we were only told that school kids and teachers found him normal instead of being shown that fact, y’know? But then again, the way that the story was being written, it wouldn’t have had allowed it to show what was happening, since most of the story was either focusing on a character, or was describing their thought process.
I guess I just didn’t like how he was a huge focus. I would have tolerated most of it if he had a little more to him. Because for me right now, he’s just one thing: “The teacher who raped Marie because anger issues I guess.” Notice the “I guess” there, it’s because I just didn’t feel anything in particular towards him. No anger, disgust, pity, fear, nothing. Because it was natural for him to do these things as a scum, I didn’t expect anything else out of him. I can go on and point out some little interesting details about him. How he feared of losing control, being looked down upon, how he feared that he was the one doing Marie’s bidding and how he thought that maybe Marie was smarter than what she seemed, the way he justified his actions, how he thought about himself, how he wanted to have become something more. But fact is, I just found him boring and not worth my time or attention.
Also on another jokey side note, can we all agree that Kanamori was an idiot on how he disposed the button? He flushed it down the toilet. A toilet that hasn’t been used in probably ages. I’m pretty sure somebody would have noticed that and found it suspicious. Then again, the button might not have been real anyway, so whatever. And the food-murder analogy was kinda bad, to be honest.

…However, I’ll give you this. Look at Kanamori once more. Now, let’s imagine that he used something else as an outlet to his anger instead of raping Marie. Something similar but not as serious like… drugs, for example. Because that’s what Marie essentially was to him in the end. An addiction. Now, ignoring the part of murder, he was pretty nonchalant about it, he didn’t care about the addiction, he didn’t care that a drug could ruin his life, because it made him feel relieved, rewarded, nice. That’s all he cared about in the end. He became obsessed with finding relief to his normal day to day hardships. Which would eventually ruin his life anyway in the end. Despite what he claimed to himself, he could not live without this “drug”.

Why am I suddenly saying this? Because by making his crime less severe, removing my “all rapists are scum” bias, you can see that he also had many options available to him aside from murder. He could have talked about it to someone. A friend maybe. But from the sound of the narration, he had nobody that close to rely on. And let’s not mention the fact that he didn’t care at all about what he did. Looking from the actual situation itself, the rape, he still had these options, but they didn’t cross his mind for… rather obvious reasons.

What I concluded here was that Kanamori and Marie were very similar in their troubles, as others have as well. They both had nobody to rely on, both were closed off from society, albeit for different reasons.
The main difference here is that Kanamori didn’t care, he was apathetic towards his situation, or maybe even angry, so he didn’t bother to ask for help, it didn’t even cross his mind. So I guess on that aspect, Kanamori is interesting. I guess.
Marie on her end was afraid, sad, depressed. She couldn’t ask for help because she was afraid of being bullied again.

Which gets me to the part of what I actually liked.
Marie. I loved her, and I felt upset of what she went through. I found it interesting the way she justified getting raped over and over again. Usually it’s because the victim “loves” the abuser, or it’s because they’re afraid of them, or because they think this is the best life they can have, or they don’t even realize they’re getting abused. But in this case, it’s because she didn’t want to get bullied by her classmates. She wanted a calmer life, and if having a calmer life meant to just be abused by one individual instead of many, she accepted it. It was not about love, it was about trying to show gratitude to make sure nobody else ever hurts her ever again.

Her bits of the chapter were the ones I loved the most, and I’m sad that there weren’t more, buuut I understand the decision on why she wasn’t as much of a focus in this particular story in comparison to Kanamori. Most of the stories of this type usually over-focus on the victim and turn them into sob stories, unfortunately.
Plus, I feel like this isn’t the last time we’re gonna hear from Marie, so there’s that.

I also enjoyed Higanbana herself as a character. To me the impression she gave was of a weird mix between Bernkastel and Lambdadelta. So far at least. Dunno what to expect from her tho’, but she’s sounding like a neat character. Also, * giggle* giggle* giggle* giggle* is the new * cackle* cackle* cackle* cackle*.

Did I mention I love different takes on urban legends for story purposes? Now I did. This is something that I’m gonna be looking at very closely throughout the rest of the Higanbana reading.

And despite what I said about redundancy and the story dragging on for me, I still adored the writing in this. Especially the beginning bit about what’s strange and not. It gave off a feel of innocence despite the cruel thing that happened in that moment. This is the stuff that I love about Ryukishi’s writing, how he can make the most horrible crimes sound whimsical, as if we’re looking through a child’s eyes.
And as most everyone mentioned, the music is great! It kept holding me to the mood that was going on in each page I was reading and I loved it. It’s a shame that the friend I was reading with couldn’t listen to it, since he’s a huge music enthusiast and a composer himself.

So I liked this, despite the negative things I mentioned above, (which are at the moment rendered null to be fair, since this is only the first chapter, and I seem to tend to get impatient about every first part of any of Ryukishi’s stories.) and I can’t wait what’s in store for the next chapter!
Also sorry if I went on a lot of tangents and didn’t finish my points, I seem to have a really hard time focusing on one thing ahaha…

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I’M LAAAAATEEE!!:sweat_smile:

But if Marie could have a burst of determination after her death, even though she carried out that miserable life, then I can catch up to you guys!

My first impression of the game, like almost every visual novel I play, was the music, I think the music is a key element to the story, and I must say that the music playing when Kanamori entered the bathroom to look for the button really FREAKED ME OUT. I noticed the midnight chime from Umineko, (which I love, but it’s scary) and it really surprised me!

I must say that even though I can kinda feel bad for Marie I can’t avoid saying she reaped what she sowed, and that even though it was predictable that she would be the winner of the title of “Mesomeso-san” I couldn’t say I was sure of it until Higanbana talked to Kanamori in that mischievous tone.

I feel like this chapter wanted to convey the two types of lonely people, those like Kanamori who take it as being above humans and then lash out at those below them to relieve their frustration, and those like Marie who take up everything people throw at them, for being both too weak to refuse it and too innocent to realise they have no obligation to do that. In that sense, Kanamori and Marie are a lot more alike than what might seem at first sight. He probably didn’t choose her solely because she was an easy prey, maybe, at the same time Marie relieved his anger, the sight of her brought anger to him, because it remembered him of how he was fragile, so he simply wanted to violate and humiliate that part of him, using her as a vessel to his pitiful self. This also makes me remember about Higurashi, when Hanyuu says the sins of humans are passed down to another, which is basically what Kanamori does with Marie, and maybe her becoming a youkai is a symbolical way to say she broke this chain of sin. Basically both are morons who made completely opposite decisions, and Marie’s choice was the more fortunate.

Higanbana on the other hand is a mystery to me, I could see her as emotionless, cruel, and kind without any contradictions at all, which makes me wonder how she is going to be developed.

Anyways, these are my thoughts on this chapter, it was nice for an introductory chapter, but it definitely doesn’t stand out that much. However, I liked it, so I’ll go back to more reading now…

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You don’t need to avoid honorifics -san after mesomeso, because Mesomeso-san is school’s youkai. Mesomeso is -san, because Japanese children tend to add honorific suffixes to many things. For example, usagi-san can be translated as Mr. Rabbit. Mesomeso-san sounds childish. And besides, Mesomeso is onomatopoeia. So, you can use any words which are connected with sobbing. It could be something like Mr. Sobster or Mr. Sob etc.

I’m afraid I am unable to offer any interesting insights, but here are my two cents anyway.

Chapter 1 was very intriguing. I was quite shocked, but also pleasantly surprised when the chapter immediately started with a depressing moment and didn’t follow the typical ‘lighthearted-until-it-gets-serious’ pattern that I was so used to from Umineko. It was simply dark, depressing and frustrating throughout. As for the characters:

Marie Moriya is simply a pitiable human being. I felt really bad for her, but the reality is that she made some stupid decisions and should have asked someone for help. Instead, she made excuses for herself and allowed the abuse to continue despite being aware that what was happening wasn’t okay. I can understand why a person in her circumstances would be too emotionally traumatized to even dare to reveal her circumstances to anyone, but not even opening up to her own family was an unfortunate decision and ultimately led to her demise (I know she became a yokai in the end, but still, she’s died).

One thing that occurred to me during the scene where Kanamori was insulting and making fun of already-dead Marie was that it almost appeared like the moral of this chapter (delivered in a very twisted, fucked up way). Kanamori called out Marie for not asking for anyone’s help, for not asking the society for help because if she had, she would have probably been saved in some way. Is the message here that we are not supposed to follow Marie’s example and that if we do what she did, we will only end up dead or worse? That we are supposed to open up to someone, especially our family, and ask for help to avoid the worst possible fate? I’m not sure. But Marie felt like an embodiment of ‘what not to do’ when you are bullied and abused.

Kanamori is human trash. But I have to be honest and admit that I enjoyed the portrayal of a character who views the society as one enormous food chain, who viewed himself as a ‘predator’ and Marie as a ‘prey’. As despicable as he is, it is amusing how many things he has in common with Marie, particularly the fact that both Marie and Kanamori made excuses for their own actions. I have to praise Ryukishi for always being able to portray his characters, even fucked up ones, with nuance rather than them being evil for the sake of evil.

I also found it curious how both Marie and Kanamori wished to transcend their human self. Marie in particular reminded me of (When They Cry spoilers ahead) Sayo who sought to become a witch and cease being human. I thought that was a fun parallel. Not to mention the fact that both Marie and Sayo were characters in difficult circumstances who found it difficult to truly open themselves up to anyone about their issues.

The yokai, Higanbana, left a positive impression on me. She certainly seems like an entity that would prey on your soul without remorse, but by the end of the chapter, I really enjoyed her seemingly budding friendship with Marie. But I also feel like she could turn on Marie in any second, so I definitely need more information on her before I can fully judge her character.

Overall, a good start. I apologize if I said anything stupid or insensitive, these are really the only things I can think of right now.

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You make an interesting point in that Kanamori and Marie are alike in the way they justify their actions. I think asking for help instead of suffering in silence is the moral here, as becoming a youkai and simply killing Kanamori is not the best solution, and most people know that.

I’m glad you liked the beginning of Higanbana, it certainly won’t let up. :smirking:

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Remembering the first time I read chapter 1 it cought me very offguard. I had not expected it to get so dark right from the very beginning and I absolutely loved it only a few lines in. I will give most credit to the amazingly haunting music, the score is wonderful and completely makes this chapter for me.

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Finally getting round to playing this VN. Man Kanamori’s ‘death’ (we’ll see for how long) was a satisfying read.

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I’m going back and re-reading Higanbana a 2nd time because it’s such a good series that desperately needs more attention!

Ryukishi said himself that Higanbana was going to be much more darker then the When They Cry series…And it shows within its first chapter!

It starts off right away with Kanamori leaving a molested Marie in one of the stalls on the old school bathroom sobbing to her hearts content. Then, through a chance meeting with Higanbana and gaining the courage to stand up to her teacher, only for her to be brutally murdered by Kanamori. Having her body being thrown into a septic tank nevertheless.

This chapter however, is even worse in the original manga! As it graphically shows Kanamori molesting Marie. Even go so far as to full blown raping her dead body…

…There are no words for how disgusting and irredeemable this man is…

Thankfully, Ryukishi watered this down vastly in the VN.

Ironically enough though, my favorites parts included Kanamori’s philosophical and demented views about his place on the hierarchy.

I think this was a pretty solid introduction to the series, not my favorite but still a good chapter nevertheless.

Favorite Quotes/Lines/Interesting Concepts:

" That’s right, Leaving no evidence I accomplished murder and escaped unseen. …That meant that I stood above humans in the hierarchical pyramid.
In other words…I passed my test as a killer, and now, I have surpassed the so called human stage…
And what I earned was the name ‘Mesomeso-san.’
Yes…I have surpassed human beings, I have become ‘Mesomeso-san.’"

  • Kanamori after her dumps Marie’s body

"What a foolish man. There are only two things that can evaporate, or disappear from this world. Know what they are?
The things that disappear…Water and grateful souls, just these two.
Are you looking for Marie’s right sleeve button? What is that made of? Water? Grateful souls?
Right. It’s made of things that aren’t water of souls. So there is no way it can disappear from this world. It can’t dissolve or evaporate…So it must still be where it was dropped, right?..It’ll be where it was dropped, always. Until it’s found by someone,… it’ll be there forever won’t it?"

  • Higanbana to Kanamori in the Infirmary

Kanamori’s entire tangent about school being another society during the day, but at night having the rules of society no longer reaching him, therefore transcending the idea of society as a whole.

"Take my daily meals for instance, if I came to regret every single animal or plant I have eaten before, I wouldn’t be able to eat a slice of bread.
…And that’s my attitude towards Marie.
We’re firmly placed in different levels of the hierarchy. And I’m placed in a higher position than Marie on the pyramid.
…And that’s all there was to it.
So things ended up as they should, and I don’t need to regret anything. Just like there are no humans who shed tears of sadness from eating bread."

  • Kanamori in the old school bathroom
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Well then first time I am ever doing something like this so here I go.

I have not heard anything about Higabana except for the fact that is the most like Higurashi/Umineko out of all the other 07th Expansion works. Also I have been through almost all the music as in the Festival of Mayhem day I was matching all the music together.

This certainly was a pretty interesting opening to Higabana, straight into a teacher abusing a student.and pretty gruesome if you ask me.

All the characters seem to be pretty good so here is a quick overview of what I think about them

Marie/Mesomeso-san - I to be honest don’t like her all that much so far, she comes off as too impressionable for me. While this is because of her situation I personally just don’t like this type of character, however she does her job.

Kanamori - I liked Kanamori more than Marie because I could more or less tell what his course of actions are. I tend to be pretty logically minded so I tend to be able to follow them a bit better, at least I am until he kind of starts going insane right at the duel for becoming Mesomeso-san. I’m pretty sure he is coming back though and I’ll say more on that matter later.

Higabana - Higabana is my favorite character that got introduced, she has kind of a mysterious aura to her especially since she is just classified as the “Dancing Doll” she is the 3rd seat which since it seemed like that was pretty ridiculously high for just a doll that dances. I’m not sure if the rankings are determined by seniority or by power but either way.

Nurse - There really isn’t too much to say about her except that I think she is more or less supposed to be the logical “reality” character.

So the story itself. I started it up at about 10:30 so I was not at all prepared to instantly be thrown into sexual abuse but whatever! While I do feel sorry for Marie’s position I personally think it is mostly brought upon her by herself. As Kanamori said in the duel to become Mesomeso-san she always had the upper hand over him its just she never saw that fact for herself.

As soon as Marie said in the bathroom that she wanted to stop doing this I knew that the Mesomeso-san story was going to be fully cemented into reality, however I thought the Kanamori was going to become Mesomeso-san by strangling Marie, then when the female student came she would see Mesomeso-san’s first victim.

When the duel to become Mesomeso-san was suggested, I thought that Kanamori was going to win it until he actually started talking to Marie. I had remembered about the clause of “Don’t talk, Don’t look” and as he started talking I was sure Marie was going to become Mesomeso-san.

As to what I think will happen in the future I think the next chapter is going to contain another story of a Youkai of the school looking at the chapter select screen there seems to be enough space for eight chapters, or basically one for each Youkai. Seeing as it is called “Spirit Camera” if this was literally any other series I would put money down that it would remove peoples clothes in the pictures, however this is a 07th Expansions work so I think it will be about a camera that either shows spirits in the pictures taken or it removes the spirit of the person who is in the photo. Either way I have a feeling that we will learn more about the “rouge spirits” that are not one of the now eight mysteries.

Further into the future I think that what will eventually happen is that the “rogue spirits” will eventually rise up against the eight mysteries, probably for some reason like “Your newest additions to the mysteries of this school are too weak while you have all of us powerful spirits.” IDK that’s just what I think.

So on to Chapter 2!

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