Higurashi Ch. 1 Onikakushi Spoiler-Free General

07th Discussion
#30

Going through my second playthrough now since the only time I touched Onikakushi was right before Watanagashi came out and I need to refresh my memory. I’ll give all my thoughts after I finish this playthrough but there is one big thing that stands out to me that I want to bring up.

When Keiichi hears about the disappearances and he begins losing sleep, he tries to sleep in class. At that point he overhears Mion and Rena talking about the Watanagashi and Tomitake. Mion sounds like she doesn’t know what’s going on and Rena seems to be quite scared herself. That leads me to question the validity the scenes when Rena and Mion “snap” later on, especially with Rena’s attitude in the scene when Keiichi slams the door on her hand. That one scene is drastically different from the other times when she “snaps” that it makes me wonder if all the incidents truly happened or if Keiichi’s grasp on reality has become so warped that he can only imagine the things he fears the most.

Also, I want to point out that one of the victims of the “curse” was a person who didn’t go to the Watanagashi. Keiichi’s parents didn’t go to the Watanagashi. Coincidence?

2 Likes
#31

Hold on. This screenshot of yours:

2sZ6MlD.jpg1024x768 222 KB

In my version this scene is different. You wouldn’t happen to be using a mod that changed the text to match the console version, would you?

#32

A friend of mine who I’ve introduced to the series brought up the fact that both Keiichi and the police never found the needle. Their assumption was that, since even a thorough police investigation didn’t discover it, it was taken by whoever – or whatever – tampered with what was on the back of the clock. They’re pretty dead-set on that line of thinking, too.

If I recall correctly, one of the folks in the stream brought up the possibility that Keiichi was not a reliable narrator, and that is also a possibility. One person had the idea that most of what happened was just entirely his imagination.

Of course, this is also true. From an outsider’s point of view, much of Keiichi’s hysteria may have looked ridiculous, but, honestly, if I was genuinely convinced that I was under the threat of death in a location I was only just getting to know, from something that I didn’t even know the true nature of, I’d be pretty terrified too. Of course if it was me I’d just hole up in my bedroom, fall asleep for three days, and let them come kill me if they wanted because lord knows I’m not bold enough to pick up a weapon

With so little completely solid information, theories doesn’t have much ground to stand on at this point, unfortunately, but that’s really half the fun of speculation this early on, isn’t it?

3 Likes
#33

Yeah!

BTW, what were the lines redacted from the letter at the back of the clock?

#34

“Please reinvestigate the victim from the dismemberment incident. He’s alive.
Tomitake-san’s death was from an unknown drug. This syringe is proof.”

The bit about the syringe and how they nabbed it makes sense. But taking out the bit about the dismemberment incident… Maybe he was on to something.

3 Likes
#35

Thanks @Aspirety !

Another thing:

If we think Keiichi’s an unreliable narrator who’s delusional… Can it be that there was never a syringe in the first place?

Or… turn that around: Does the existence of the rest of the letter prove the existence of the syringe?

1 Like
#36

All it proves is that Keiichi was made aware of the existence of a drug that could have caused Tomitake’s death. The letter itself does not prove the existence of the syringe, but it gives the police a lead that there is a possibility that it hadn’t been suicide.

But a lead is just a lead after all, and if the autopsy still found nothing, then, well, the lead would be rendered useless.

1 Like
#37

I am very late but I finally finished reading it again. First things first, I’m still mad at how screwed over Keiichi gets in the end. He tried so hard and finally got leads for Ooishi only for someone to completely destroy everything he worked hard and payed his life for. I believe that people are behind the murders but demons/possession isn’t entirely out of the question. I was going along with the delusional Keiichi idea until Rena’s previous incident in the city is brought to light by Ooishi. Then there is the scene where Keiichi flees from Rena to the dam and is later brought home by her. That was where a big question pops up for me. If Rena had the intention of killing Keiichi like he imagined over and over again, there was nothing stopping her there, so why didn’t she? What was there to gain from postponing it? That is so out of character to the Rena that had been portrayed being cold, maniacal, and prepared to kill only minutes earlier.

There’s also that all the signs of the curse would and had attach itself to Keiichi in some way. His parents didn’t go to the Watanagashi like a previous victim which I stated earlier, he openly denied Oyoshiro, then the connection between Satoshi, Rena, and Keiichi picking up a bat and practicing their swing (Rena practiced on people and windows though). Rena flat out says that Keiichi is mimicing the same actions Satoshi had taken before he was demoned away. She also tells him what the feeling of having Oyoshiro around is like, and is relatable to him.

Even with all that though, I can’t make heads or tales of if Keiichi’s mind had shattered and he had imagined the instances where he felt he was followed/having someone behind him or if he was feeling Oyoshiro closing in on him, bending Keiichi to his will. I also can’t discern if the scenes where Rena and Mion snap are truly happening or not because of his state of mind. Also, Rena showed up EVERY TIME Keiichi was speaking to Ooishi or wanted to speak to Ooishi. If demons aren’t to explain, then Keiichi or Ooishi are under some serious surveillance. Hell, Rena and Mion flat out tell him they know exactly what he’d done when he talked to Ooishi in town. I can’t even think of how to explain that one unless Hinamizawa residents tailed 'em but we never got any signs of that through Keiichi’s narration.

A few last questions I want to raise before I’m done. Who removed the syringe from the clock? Was it the 5 people who were at his house before he ran? How would they know to check behind his clock if Keiichi only told his parents about it? Why would they only rip a few lines out of the paper instead of taking the whole page to remove evidence? What is the beginning scene of the novel portraying directly after you press start? Is that Satoshi being demoned away? What purpose does it serve for the rest of the chapter? What is Rena and Mion’s “true self” like? Are they the friendly, playful type we see in the beginning or are they the cold, threatening, potential murderers we see in the end? What about Rika and Satoko?

This is such a fantastic mystery because so much of the information given can swing either way if you think about it hard enough.

3 Likes
#38

Woo finished my first ever part of an 07 work unless Rewrite Lucia route counts? anyways, for one thing, I think the SoL parts were good. As it is the first chapter, the SoL stuff contrasts later in the game when shit hits the fan and I really liked that. Some stuff I’m wondering about for now is what if a lot of this stuff is explained by Keiichi’s mindset and something similar to the placebo (or nocebo) effect? One of the clearer examples for me is near the end when Rena and Mion are pinning him down and gonna use the syringe. I thought, What if the reason why they didn’t find drugs in Jirou was that the syringe was just water but he was lead to believe that it would fuck him up in that way? Or no, disregarding how mysterious Jirou’s death was, what if Keiichi’s belief that he was drugged and would have the same fate as Jirou caused him to end up killing himself in the same way? Hell, he didn’t even need to get the shot if he just believed it. And at this point, it was pretty clear his mind was in shambles and would probably believe anything that didn’t come out of the mouths of his former friends. But then again, the syringe was gone so maybe there actually was a drug.
Also I feel like there might be some kind of “ignorance is bliss” type of theme here but we’ll see when we get to the next arcs.

6 Likes
#39

Yay! Finished my re-read.

I liked this a lot more than I remember liking Onikakushi. I think it may be because I haven’t interacted with Higurashi in a long time that I wasn’t thinking of it as the mountain of an intro you have to go through to get to the good stuff. The balance between slice of life and mystery is pretty good for an opening arc, you really get a feel for how tragic it is for Keiichi when things start going to hell.

One thing I like is going back and seeing how well planed this whole thing was from the beginning. In anime and manga you end up with a lot of shows that feel like they are flying by the seat of their pants, but there is a lot of really good foreshadowing in this arc for all of Higurashi as whole.

HIGURASHI SERIES END SPOILERS

There were a few places in particular that stood out as foreshadowing or hints that I was really excited to see.

IMG_1856.PNG1617x1261 1.54 MB

This basically spells out the whole thing. I know Rika is not the guilty party, but it calls your attention to every key element. It is shuffled in a way that makes it easy to overlook, but with the crime game it calls enough attention to it.

This felt like a call out to one of the series themes as a whole. The idea that even with the odds stacked against and the game seeming unwinnable you still need to struggle a bit more and you really might have your breakthrough.

One of my favorite parts of reading the VN as opposed to experiencing the story any other way is the TIPS sections. I especially like getting to read the newspaper articles about the murders - the ominous one about the housewife that basically instantly ended was a really nice touch. The uniform and one on Rena’s name are also interesting things that get you thinking. I like that it is also an in universe explanation for why everyone wears different uniforms besides “because they are a main character”

So one thing I do have to say, I am not huge on the naturalization of the Mangagamer translation. I was reading the Steam version, and while it was better than I remember reading on iOS previously I thought it was still pretty lacking. The vocabulary in the dialog had a lot words that didn’t fit with the tone of the character or conversation. It really could have used more work with one editor trying to unify it a bit.

I watched the Onikakushi arc to the anime directly after finishing reading through this - bad choice - but it was interesting. The anime is probably more of “ride” where things keep happening and it is exciting but it doesn’t feel like they give you enough information to really figure anything out. The novel is clearly giving you information in a way that says it wants you to be actively thinking about the mystery parts as you read.

8 Likes
#40

@Lishy in the discord chat asked, “Has anyone solved Higurashi just from 4 question arcs?” So I thought “CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!” After each arc chapter whatever the hell, I will present my current theory based on the arc chapter at hand and the preceding chapters. I hope it will be mildly entertaining and also help me organize my thoughts on the vn as a whole. So without further ado, ridiculous unsupported theory time!

First, I believe the culprit is Oishi-san with the Knowledge Bombs in the… car! So basically people have already established that Keiichi is an unreliable narrator… probably. My earlier theory about the syringe thing suggests that maybe the syringe wasn’t even real. What if most of the occurrences were just made up in Keiichi’s mind? With all the evidence that Oishi told Keiichi in the car, Keiichi should have been thoroughly convinced that Oyashiro-sama did exist and caused all those deaths. But he refused to believe it. Or so he says. So maybe he consciously did not believe in Oyashiro-sama while he unconsciously did. This may have caused his split personality that becomes so prevalent at the end. One of Keiichi’s biggest conflicts was something to the effect of, “If Oyashiro-sama doesn’t exist, then my friends are fucked up murderers, but if he does exist, then they are just being controlled, but Oyashiro-sama can’t be real! But my friends aren’t fucked up either and my little sister cant be this cute!” So in conclusion, the new info he gets leads him to act all weird and suspicious of his friends which in turn makes them suspicious of him which makes a cycle of suspicion that may even cause him to become delusional.

Now you may be thinking? Why would it be caused by Oishi-san and not Tomitake-san? Well, let me take you on a journey of human psychology. I will try not to touch religion too much with this but its about a deity so it kinda has to. Basically, I’ve heard of people who normally do not believe of God who suddenly go to church or whatever after a big disaster occurs. Like, most people won’t acknowledge a god they if they believe it does not matter. But once something big happens, people are suddenly compelled to pray or whatever in hopes of basically getting off easy and they hope that that deity exists to save them from their troubles. So who’s to say that doesn’t apply here? What I’m trying to say here is this, Keiichi, seeing that Oishi came up to HIM and no one else, is lead to believe that he is the only one to help solve the crime because he is the next target since he’s an outsider. When he heard the story from Tomitake-san before, there was no real correlation between him and the other victims because by the logic before, only enemies of Hinamizawa would be targeted by Oyashiro-sama’s curse. But once Tomitake-san died, the logic extended to outsiders which obviously includes him. That causes his “I don’t believe in Oyashiro-sama but I do” personality split.

Ok so we know the suspect, and we know he’s delusional, so now what? Time to patch up the massive holes in this theory. Why did Rena and Mion suddenly have crazy eyes and say weird things? Most likely because again, he’s already gone insane. Why did Rena and Mion put a needle in whatever food that was presented to Keiichi? Who said there was a needle? Oh right, Keiichi. Who still may be insane and also the needle was never found. Why did Rena and Mion jump on Keiichi in his room? Remember the punishment for not guessing which one was made by Rena? Who’s to say they weren’t just punishing him by forcing him into a new ridiculous outfit? What about the syringe? Who said there was a syringe? OH RIGHT! KEIICHI! And that was never found either. Seriously though, who in their right mind uses a baseball bat to bash their friends’ heads in? No one, because Keiichi is not in his right mind. And well, he scratched his throat to death so he was probably hallucinating those people at the end too.

So there is still one more question. Why did Oishi-san kill Keiichi? Well it could’ve been an accident. Oishi-san DID say he could stop talking at any time as long as Keiichi said so. But you guys don’t think Higurashi could be explained by mere accident so my other motive of why Oishi killed Keiichi could simply be just this: Oishi was jealous of Keiichi’s delicious loli harem.
BUT HEY ITS ALL JUST A THEORY, A GAME THEORY, thanks for reading.

Holy wall of text. I might actually add more to this if I remember something. Anyways this was the first absurd theory, but there shall be more when I finish the next chapter arc whatever the hell.
EDIT #1: I had so much fun writing this stupid sh*t lol

8 Likes
#41

And Mion, at the final chapter, when he asks who put the needle~

But yes, the theory of it being “all in Keiichi’s head” is a valid one. He himself lists it down as one of the options, after all! I personally like to think of a more holistic approach: Keiichi was a little bit crazy, and people were a little bit after him and things built over and over until it became a big, sticky mess

3 Likes
#42

By the way, any word on when we can expect the Onikakushi podcast?

#43

Here’s my beef with Onikakushi… The true culprit.

End of Higurashi Kai series spoilers:

I heard Ryukishi07 made up the plot as he went. Allegedly, the whole reason for the Rika subplot of coming into existence in the first place was to troll his friend, who’s favourite character was Rika. With that established, it is possible Rika was not intended to have much significance beyond being a moe character, and she was not the “queen carrier” of Hinamizawa Syndrome at this stage in the story. But if that is the case, who was the culprit, and why? Did Ryukishi07 plan out Higurashi Kai’s incredibly complex motivations as early as Onikakushi, or is it possible Onikakushi has a different intended culprit entirely?

#44

(Spoilers for all of Higurashi): Well, at the beginning of all the arcs we have the mysterious poems by ‘Frederica Bernkastel,’ where Frederica couldn’t be from anything other than Furude Rika (especially if you write ‘Frederica’ out in Japanese characters, where it becomes ‘Furederika.’ This seems to hint that Rika is more than she appears.

(Spoilers for all of Higurashi and Hinamizawa Bus Stop): Besides, we can see that Rika was the queen carrier already even in Hinamizawa Bus Stop, so I think that was part of the story from the beginning. When he says he made the story up as he went along, he probably meant the overarching narrative (as in, how Rika was going to defeat Takano). I think it’s unlikely that he didn’t know the answers to the mysteries or that he changed them to any great extent. I’m not sure he had the finer details of Takano’s motivation already in place from the beginning, but that’s about as far as I’d go.

3 Likes
#45

There is room for doubt on that point.

20160423121132_1.jpg800x600 134 KB

And no, Keiichi doesn’t clarify what he meant after that.

1 Like
#46

Pepe’s bad memory strikes again, whoops :stuck_out_tongue:

#47

One point of yours is somewhat refuted by Watanagashi (I am following the MG retranslation myself)

Ooishi does mention that a syringe was found on Rika, so it is likely (though not definite) that such a syringe exists. Whether that syringe is the type of syringe that was supposedly used on Keiichi, though, is unclear- but the lines removed from his note on the back of the clock seem to point to the fact that someone wants to keep the fact that Keiichi thinks a drug that drove Tomitake to suicide exists.

#48

So I’m listening to the podcast and someone quoted how Mion says, “You’re going to have done to you what happened to Tomitake-san.” Or something along those lines. Now keeping with my theory, I believe that Keiichi may have imagined most of the stuff the girls say wen they have crazy eyes. Especially that line. HE thinks that will happen, but it’s not really proven until the nocebo effect mentioned earlier kicks in. Also my theory may have already have been refuted but I haven’t finished watanagashi yet so oh well
EDIT: in my original theory, I forgot to mention the fact that Keiichi says I wish I could forget what happened in the past few days. In those past few days the most significant event was taking those SMALL KNOWLEDGE BOMBS to the face.

3 Likes
#49

I wasn’t sure whether to post this in this thread or the tea party thread, but since it kind of uses the podcast as a starting point for further discussion, I decided to post it here.

I really enjoyed the podcast. I thought the point about dissociation was particularly interesting. It made me realize that Keiichi actually dissociates…quite a bit.

For example:

  • Keiichi uses the expression ‘the other me inside me’ several times. A cursory search revealed 9 instances in Onikakushi.

  • He doesn’t remember how he got home after Rena yelled at him.

  • He throws the mochi before he even consciously realized what was in it.

  • The next day on the way to school, he gets lost in thought thinking about Rena’s past and before he realizes it, they’ve arrived at the school.

  • When school ends that day, he doesn’t remember anything that happened during it.

  • When he thinks someone invisible is behind him and attacks them, he describes himself as calm, even though he’s simultaneously experiencing raging emotions.

  • He completely forgets killing Rena and Mion.

  • After he realizes that he killed them, he says that the surface of his mind is panicky but in the depths of his mind, he is calm.

And these are just the examples I could think of off the top of my head. Keep in mind that I’m far from being an expert on dissociation, and also that I’m not necessarily saying Keiichi has a dissociation disorder, but you could perhaps make an argument that he dissociates more than your average person.

5 Likes