Higurashi Ch. 5 Meakashi Full Series Spoilers General

Spoilers discussion topic for Chapter 5: Meakashi of Higurashi When They Cry. Chapter 5 refers to volumes 9-12 of the manga, and episodes 16-21 of the first anime series.

This topic is intended for people who have finished the entirety of Higurashi and wish to discuss this chapter in light of future events. For those who have yet to finish Higurashi in its entirety, please tread carefully, because there will be untagged spoilers! Please tag references to outside works with the [spoiler] tag, with adequate context provided in parenthesis.

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I just finished Meakashi last night. I don’t have many articulate thoughts, but one thing I did notice was the theme of (Umineko spoilers) “without love, it cannot be seen” being quite heavily present in this chapter, which was a nice surprise as I feel like that aspect of things was kind of omitted in the anime with the lack of internal monologue. We get far more of an insight into the thoughts behind Shion’s actions, and most blantantly, she decides in the end she won’t kill Keiichi if he realises who she is. Of course, as she says herself, Keiichi hardly knew Shion that well to figure out this was her, though he did succeed in so far as protecting both Mion and Shion in his heart and seeing the person before him as a demon instead. Then, in the end, she does spare him, amongst realisations that there’s much more to him than she’d thought, and an achieved understanding of why Mion fell in love with him. Then there’s the heartbreaking tip at the very end seemingly depicting a conversation between Akane and “Shion” - probably the twin we know as Mion - about why Akane was ex-communicated. The twin in this scene thinks Akane and Oryou have a bad relationship due to the way they behave in public, but Akane explains they don’t at all. She surrendered her status, married the man she loved, and went through the same nail-peeling torture as Shion does later to atone, but was fully satisfied with her decisions, and she points out Oryou ended up peeling off her own nails as a kind of punishment towards herself. I feel like this scene really brought home how tragic the whole arc is - if Shion had known his much or remembered it, she might not’ve become so suspicious of her family and been able to trust they didn’t do anything to Satoshi however they acted on the surface. However, she was raised at a kind of distance and clearly felt unloved and unneeded to some extent. On both sides, here, the lack of love lead to a series of tragic misunderstandings - right until the end, where Mion tries to explain to Shion the Sonozakis didn’t do anything, and she can’t believe her, probably at this point because it would be unbearable to after everything she’s done. Without enough love between Shion and her family, she wasn’t able to see the truth, and nobody fully understood her feelings, either. What the tip at the end really brings home is how much even a single conversation could’ve affected everything - which of course leads perfectly into Tsumihoroboshi’s themes. I guess Meakashi is a kind of unique, bridging arc - we’re presented with the usual tragedies, but not the salvation of a solution or any kind of happy ending. The clues to the mystery begin to form quite blantantly, but the characters themselves still haven’t quite taken the steps they need to to reach the future they desire. There’s also Satoko’s torture scene, where Shion realises the crucial difference between the two of them - Satoko had love, had the belief the other characters end up fighting so hard for - and always trusted Satoshi would one day come home. Others might have seen that as weak or childish, yet even in spite of that, Satoko held on. It’s not a side to her we really see before this point, and just brings home why Satoko is one of the strongest members of the club from the get-go. You have to wonder if it’s part of the reason she’s so dear to Rika - this is the very belief she fights so hard for so long to gain within herself. It also reminds me of (Umineko spoilers) the messages behind Umineko, and Ange’s struggle to come to terms with the death of her family. In fact, it’s shockingly similar, when you consider Ange and Satoko are both fighting particularly with the grief of losing their older brothers. Satoko, at her young age, has already found a way through life for herself, a way to cope with the circumstances, and Hanyuu does later point out that this belief is something that will be rewarded.

I think Shion’s one of the most morally ambiguous and powerful characters in all of WTC, and it makes me quite happy to see how much love she gets in spite of how easy it might be to hate her. She’s particularly compelling, as the club member perhaps most capable of killing for her own gain even Hinamizawa Syndrome aside, because this means a large part of her arc is her conscious decision to move away from being such a person, when the other characters mostly would never have done the things they had if they hadn’t been seized by paranoia and fear. At the end of the arc, there’s a postscript from Ryukishi asking readers to think carefully about what can explain or perhaps justify murder, if anything, to them. Whether people sympathize with Shion or not, she recognises fully towards the end of the arc both that she’s made iredeemable mistakes, even states that she’s no tragic heroine but rather a character nobody should agree with, but also then makes the vow never to make the same mistakes again, which she follows through on, however miniscule or subconscious her knowledge of the past worlds is. She’s the first character who learns from her mistakes and takes that step towards the future the club needs, in a way. Shion did awful things, but I never once found myself angry at her reading Meakashi. If anything, she seems like the sacrificial lamb - this arc being the one that needed to happen before the club could really begin to move forward.

Hmm, I didn’t mean to ramble this much, but I guess the arc affected me more than I thought. Another aside, the music in this arc really made it. Thank goodness Ryukishi managed to get the composers on board that he did, and it’s even more rewarding jumping up from the royalty-free stuff from the question arcs. It’s almost like a happy coincidence with a lot of emotional pay-off. My favourite two tracks were Shadow and What is Wished, all in all they really created the atmosphere of gut-wrenching melancholy and heartache that fully allowed you to understand Shion’s feelings through everything she was doing.

In spite of everything I’ve said, I do think Meakashi will end up being the weakest answer arc for me, but I can see why it has the reputation it does. It’s certainly one of a kind, and perhaps is the most blatant illustration of how well Ryukishi writes characters and enables readers to understand and sympathize with them, even feel heartbroken for and cry for them, no matter what lengths they go to. There’s that same stunning, raw humanity in Meakashi that characterizes all of Higurashi, but the extent to which it’s laid bare here is really something. It makes it a truly unforgettable experience.

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@rika summed up my feelings on Meakashi perfectly, so I feel like I have nothing to add, other than my appreciation for Satoshi and Shion being super cute together. The BGM “Thanks” makes them all the more cuter!

I do want to point out this beautiful thing I found. I totally missed this on both my first read, and initial reread. Only when I decided to reread it again did I realize this happened.

Rika talking to Hanyuu here (amongst other things) is really the big difference between Meakashi and Watanagashi for me. Even if they are set in similar fragments, the Rika in this fragment commits suicide because she knows that otherwise, she will probably be tortured to death like she was in Watanagashi. I think this is why Meakashi is considered the “answer” to Watanagashi. Inconsistencies between the two fragments like Rika choosing to end her own life, rather than have it ended for her are evidence for the realization that she knows what’s going on in other fragments. Looking back at it now, I can see clearly how all the pieces are there for readers to realize Rika knows about the previous fragments.

I wonder if the newbies will pick up on this~?

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Just finished reading. What a ride! Meakashi has been my favorite arc for a long time and Shion my favorite character, but I have to admit, experiencing this in VN form was very different from experiencing it in anime or manga form. That’s probably because as a medium, the novel gave much more insight into Shion’s thoughts and feelings and I absolutely loved her gradual descent into madness. Sometimes it took her only one misinterpreted word or phrase to twist her reasoning into the worst possible scenario. Also, that last tip with Akane blew my mind. (And so did the mental image of Oryou on a motorcycle.)

I actually lost a lot of sympathy for Shion as a human and gained a lot of respect for her as a character (and consequently, for Ryu as a writer). I guess I never really understood before exactly how twisted she had become - it was the little things that kept piling up (always blaming Satoko, always insisting that Mion didn’t have to feel guilty towards her). Speaking of that, the way she described the environment of Hinamizawa and the curse system reminded me of Umineko, since it wasn’t one single event or one character that was at fault for the tragedy, but little day to day interactions that added up and formed a pile of sins. More than anything, I feel like Shion’s madness is the most rational so far, in that she becomes very thought and action prone, rather than emotions prone, when she is down.

Out of all the character-related things that were cut out of the anime, omitting the original switch between the twins is the one that pissed me off the most. I feel that this detail is part of the core of Shion’s existence. It explains why Mion always felt indebted to her and was willing to go to great lengths to ease Shion’s life; it explains why Shion felt powerless in saving Satoshi; it explains why to Shion, her descend into insanity felt like regaining her original identity; it explains Shion’s final dilemma down there in the torture chamber with Keiichi, when she realized nobody truly understood her. (It also explains what the ideal situation was like for Shmion in Saikoroshi.) In fact, I wonder what exactly tipped Ooishi into realizing the original switch had taken place - was it just the diary? Or was it his intuition?

Speaking of Ooishi, I am starting to like more and more the adults of Higurashi. I never really cared for Ooishi in the anime or manga, but the VN made him so flawed and human-like that he has become one of my favorite characters overall. Kasai also got quite the spotlight this episode and I feel like he was more of a parent towards Shion than her own dad was (who’s very rarely mentioned). Dr. Irie scared me in Meakashi tbh - the way he nonchalantly appeared in front of the toy store and pretended he knew nothing of Satoshi. I wonder if he would have told anything to Shion in his car, had she went with him and not with Ooishi at that time.

This chapter showed me again that Ryu is a master when it comes to writing relationships between characters. One that particularly amused me was Shion-Rena. Out of all the kids, Shion is the only one who truly senses Rena’s dangerous nature. Another was that between Satoko and Satoshi; I feel like Satoko’s torture was much more powerful as a written scene than a drawn one.

Speaking of Satoshi, his new character sprite looks incredibly cute. (Keiichi too looks very nice, but I wouldn’t call him cute.) I think Shion is a bit wrong when it comes to Satoshi’s lying ability. That scene right after the murder when Ooishi questions him shows a pretty calm Satoshi - much calmer than when Keiichi was questioned. But then again, Shion is wrong with many things when it comes to Satoshi - and at the same time, I could feel how genuine her longing for him was. (I wouldn’t call it love at this point because Satoshi himself is unaware of Shion - they only had one interaction where Satoshi knew of Shion’s identity.)

On another note… I feel that Ryu cheated a bit this arc. Shion is the only one who doesn’t claw her neck when infected with Hinamizawa syndrome. I can’t help but feel that this is purely for plot reasons (if Shion started itching, she would realize she had the same symptoms that she witnessed in Rika).

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On your point about Ooishi realising the twins’ switch in their youth, it’d be clearer if we knew when the scene where he’s reading the notebook takes place, but we know that Keiichi is stabbed on June 30th (from the manga) and suffers heart failure and dies on July 3rd, right after Ooishi talks to him. At that time, when Keiichi is asked again (he’s already stated it to Ooishi) who stabbed him and he says Mion, Ooishi says they found Mion and she died before then. If the notebook incident happens after all this, I suppose once they ascertained Mion’s time of death, they realised something was strange and took fingerprints…? But, I do think, as seems to be stated more than once, Ooishi is just very sharp and has a good intuition, too.

Your mention of the throat-scratching symptom of Hinamizawa Syndrome is interesting. Going by the measure that a character reaches L5 when they’re hearing footsteps, Keiichi reaches L5 in Tatarigoroshi and doesn’t claw out his throat. Satoko also seems to reach L5 in this arc and stops taking her injection around when Teppei takes her in but doesn’t resort to this, even though it’s stressed she must take it three times a day or will advance to L5. As for what happens to Rika in Meakashi, I’m a bit confused on that point - she reacts strangely to the prototype treatment she gets injected into her because it’s been developed from her. I’m not sure whether she clawed her throat out because she immediately reached L5 and whether she even had Hinamizawa Syndrome in that instance, but I can’t remember enough about the functioning of the Syndrome and Rika’s biology clearly enough to say.

If I haven’t made any mistakes in my observations, it seems the throat-clawing is far from a necessary symptom of L5. We know that nobody within the series quite understands HS either and that there are misconceptions about it. We also know Rena’s scratching at her skin was because of the prior-formed belief that there were maggots in her blood, and that Satoshi cites hearing that from her when he does it himself - perhaps also relating to Rena’s feeling that her blood was tainted by a hated family member. Keiichi’s death in Onikakushi is interesting to consider - we know he thought he was going to be injected with the same drug that made Tomitake claw out his throat - this image seems to be quite embedded in his mind ever since Ooishi showed him the picture of Tomitake’s body. We also know, as happens in real life, Higurashi stresses that hallucinations can form based on prior expectations, like Keiichi thinking there was a needle in the ohagi of all possible stimuli because of a childhood fear. Perhaps the idea of there being maggots in one’s blood and the general urge to claw out one’s own throat is also ultimately circumstance-based, even if it’s quite a prevalent symptom? Hopefully I’m not forgetting anything obvious here.

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While I’ve read the manga and seen the anime, I’m heading into the original version of my favourite chapter for the first time. I’ll make edits to this post on my thoughts after each session of playtime, I’ll try to read for a couple hours nightly.

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Since I finished reading Meakashi only three days ago I will give my thoughts on it while my memory is still fresh :thinsmile:
Note that I haven’t read the visual novel versions of the last three answer arcs yet and only watched the anime (which has been a while), so any references to those arcs might not be 100% accurate.
First of all I have to say I could appreciate Meakashi much more after reading the visual novel version. Of course, this has been the case for all the question arcs as well, but I feel like I am now able to understand Shion as a character so much better. I was also surprised (and even a litle bit upset in the beginning) that the initial switch before the tattoo was completely missing in the anime, which is an important detail to really grasp the relationship between the Sonozaki sisters.

While Shion can’t help but feel a fair bit of jealousy towards her sister for the not so slight difference in their life and upbringing she knows that this is not something she can blame Mion for and usually insists that it’s not a big deal to her when Mion apologizes. You really feel sorry for her when you learn how she has been treated by her family just for (supposedly) not being the one that came out of her Mother’s womb first. I guess that just shows that life isn’t fair in the sense that you can’t choose your family. It’s just a bit ironic. One might think twins should have the most equal conditions and opportunities regarding life you can think of, however, her twin sister has to go through far less hardships than Shion.

I think that also heavily influences the way Shion sees the relationship between Satoshi and Satoko. Seeing that Sastoshi suffers for always having to protect Satoko from their abusive aunt, it might remind her of her own relationship with Mion and she can’t hold back her anger towards Satoko as she thinks of it as unfair. It also doesn’t help that she can’t see Satoshi as often because of this, so she also acts out of selfishness and frustration. Just when it seems like these days of this suffering for both Satoshi and Shion come to an end, his Hinamizawa Syndrome enters Lv. 5 and he is secretly hospitalized by Dr. Irie (who is, by the way, a really good actor, you usually just don’t suspect him knowing anything about Satoshi’s disappearance at all).

The natural result of Satoshi being gone is, of course, trying to find out whose fault that is. It’s interesting how Shion’s initial suspicion towards her own family turns more and more into conviction as the story progresses. It’s only natural for her though, she has no real opportunity to think of anyone else that could be involved, besides the curse. (On a side note, it’s funny how Takano seems to be a lot more respectful towards Shion than for example Keiichi as she allows her to call her by her first name while insisting to be called Takano when talking with Keiichi. I guess she really just likes people she sees as intelligent or people who share her hobby).

The nail removal scene is also much better in the visual novel, I felt a lot more uneasy experiencing it in the visual novel. :bern:
Another thing that’s really interesting to see is the difference between Keiichi in Onikakushi and Shion in Meakashi. Both of the obviously start to suffer from the Lv5 symptoms after a while, however, while they both get paranoid and start to suspect anyone and anything, Keiichi only acts out of self defense. This is not the case for Shion. She’s also driven by various emotions such as confusion and frustration about Satoshi’s disappearance, as well as hatred towards the (for her) more and more obvious “culprits”. It did start with selfe defense after (supposedly) being cornered by Mion, thinking she would be “taken care of” like Tomitake and Takano, so she felt she had no choice but to use the stun gun.

The scene with Satoko in the torture room is also incredibly well done. I really like how Ryuukishi manages to point out the contrast between Satoko and Shion who have both been left behind by Satoshi. Satoko is convinced her brother will return no matter what and clearly regrets her behaviour in the past. While this is an incredible strength you would almost not expect from her, this is also becomes her greatest weakness in Tatarigoroshi and Minagoroshi, however, in the latter she finally acknowledges that it’s okay to ask for help in a situation like this.

As other’s already pointed out, Rika’s different turn of actions in Meakashi based on knowledge about the events of Watanagashi is definitely a big hint in this chapter.

The ending really got me this time, it’s beautifully written. Shion’s thinks back on her unfortunate life and makes the decision never to make the same mistakes again, all during her fall. After getting to know this character so much better this time, this really hit me on an emotional level.

In the end I think this chapter is a good way to start the answer arcs as it leaves most things still unanswered but gives the readers many hints to get closer to the truth. It’s also a good contrast to the other answer arcs in which many of the characters learned from their past mistakes and are subconsciously aware of them in different fragments. While it personally isn’t quite on par with Minagoroshi (my favourite arc) or Tsumihoroboshi for me, I can see why many choose it as their favourite arc and I really enjoyed reading through it.

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Finally got around to finishing Meakashi. Wow. That was quite a ride. Having only seen the anime before it was really amazing to see inside Shion’s (or however we want to call her, I guess) head. Especially from Satoko’s torture onwards. Those scenes were really something in the anime but felt like they relied more on the shock value than putting the viewer in the mind of Shion as she loses her last thread of sanity.

I’m not going to make this a super ranty post like I normally do for Umineko. I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed the chapter. I always really liked Satoshi and felt like the TIPS where he had his few diary entries were some of the most believable writing in the whole chapter. The exhaustion and weariness were so clear and poignant it almost hurt to read. All in all the suffering that you see various people suffer in this chapter is something that almost feels physically there to the reader. Congrats to Ryukishi for that achievement.

I suppose I should look a little at the mysteries. Having only seen the anime (and that was a while ago) I can’t remember if there were answers to some of the details that were brought up here. For instance, the drug addict that supposedly killed the aunt. This is similar Tatorigoroshi-hen when Keiichi can’t figure out if he did or didn’t kill Teppei. I can’t remember the anime giving an answer to that though I guess we can try and come up with our own explanations. If there’s something I missed (since I haven’t read the previous chapters) then feel free to correct me.

It feels like Takano engineered the drug addict to come forward and confess to the murder of the aunt. I’d imagine that the motive was that the police poking into the disappearance of Satoshi might uncover the real purpose of the Irei clinic which couldn’t be allowed to happen. I imagine the same scenario for Teppei’s death in Tatorigoroshi. Takano making sure that the police stop investigating something that would be inconvenient for them to delve too far into.

To be fair I do have a couple criticisms of Meakashi. My chief one is that the story seems to completely involve humans. As the first part of the answer arc we see nothing supernatural. Well, that’s not entirely true. I’d imagine that most people would point to the thumping at the shrine as being clearly Hanyuu. Sure. However, Shion feels a presence very often throughout the story and it changes depending on her mood and her sanity. It seems like it would be incredibly easy to explain this away as her dwindling sanity due to the Hinamizawa Syndrome. All of the murders are given clearly human culprits (of course, since they all have them) and I’d say that just about everything can be explained in terms of humans. There is, of course the matter of Rika fighting Shion and how Rika was so strong and how she came so close to beating Shion. However, that doesn’t really point to anything particularly supernatural since Rena is also very strange, strong and oddly perceptive. However, Rena is not supernatural in any way, shape or form. So why is it that that particular scene should point to Rika being supernatural and that other scenes don’t indicate the same for Rena. I think that this chapter, as good as it is, exemplifies my main complaint with Higurashi; it pulls a literal deus ex machina. A god appears in something that seems like you could possibly explain with only human culprits and, while you can argue that there are hints, Meakashi specifically makes things seems like only humans are involved. In fact, there were a few times when it seemed like we were directly lead into such a conclusion.

All in all, I really enjoyed the chapter. Great music, great story, fantastic characters, and a bloody good mystery.

Also, my favorite line

I feel like you’re discrediting the dichotomy of the fantasy narrative. If there were anything in Higurashi that was CLEARLY supernatural, the balance would tip in the favour of fantasy, and the human explanation would lose ground. It’s critical that Higurashi maintains this balance, where things can be explained with both magic and human explanations. Himatsubushi lends heavy support to the magic narrative, so it’s important that the followup chapter Meakashi does it’s job to tilt the balance more toward the human side to bring it back into equilibrium.

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To be honest, I think that Higurashi does well on the whole to make sure that the mystery aspects aren’t largely dependent on the fantasy. The mystery is mostly explainable by the Takano/Hinamizawa Syndrome/history. However, I just wish that Meakashi left a little more room for the fantasy, since that’s very definitely a part of the story. It seems like fantasy takes too much of a backseat in this chapter.

That’s just my impression though, and since I’ve only read Meakashi I don’t have all of the story in mind as I read this. Perhaps having read all of the other chapters you gain a more balanced perspective and you leave room for the supernatural in spite of the seeming completeness of a human culprit theory.

Yeah but the whole point of Meakashi is highlighting how little we actually know! It portrays itself as an answer arc until, at the very end you realise we know nothing of the curse and all that stuff. It’s all a farce.

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Well, it depends on whether you choose to believe Mion or not. If you believe that she’s telling the truth about what Oryou said then sure, you would think that we don’t know as much as we thought. However you might equally choose not to believe her.

I think that, for me, the problem is that it’s an answer arc. As the first answer arc you expect that you’ll get, well, answers. You expect that the answers to the story are going to start appearing, plain as day. Sure you don’t get all the answers at once but I feel that as an answer arc, it seems to misdirect the reader instead of giving them answers to the underlying mystery (at least the fantasy side of it). It gives us specific answers to Watanagashi-hen but I feel like it neglects answers to the full solution by making it feel way too human. However, that’s just my personal feeling.

That’s how you’ve been played by Ryukishi! Just because it’s an ‘answer arc’ doesn’t mean he’s gonna start blurting out all the central mysteries of the story, we still have three more chapters to go! All it’s meant to do is give you a little more info to go off, and at best provide some closure to the mysteries of Watanagashi.

This chapter doesn’t do anything to discredit a fantasy interpretation of the curse. It might lead you along that line of thinking, but it does it’s own work to pull back on that at the end.

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I think that we’re going to have to agree to disagree here. I don’t think that I’m going to convince you otherwise or vice versa. It was a good chapter regardless and I think that it gives us great insights into the characters if nothing else. I have a problem with the tone that it sets for the reader as they are beginning the answer arcs but don’t have any particular problem with the story itself.

There’s also the fact that, well, Higurashi is primarily a human-based story. It does have magical elements, but those factor into the story at a minimal level, and primarily function as a framing device for a narrative. You can explain every mystery except Rika without relying on magical explainations. So it may be fitting that you feel the balance is tipping to a human explaination.

I didn’t really feel that though~ Shion is talking to a dead person like it’s nothing.

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Yeah, I know.

But the fact is that a god does factor into this whole thing. Rika knowing as much as she does is part of the mystery of Higurashi. I’m not saying that it’s a bad thing that she’s supernatural. But the tone of Meakashi puts the readers into the mindset that if Watanagashi is completely human and all of the others are completely human (since the readers probably have human solutions to those as well) then Rika’s strangeness might be human as well. And the truth is that she’s actually talking to a god and has been through many, many Hinamizawas. It’s a pretty big about face from how most of the story pans out and it feels like Meakashi sets the reader up to try and make it human. Sure, you could say it’s supposed to do that and that Ryukishi is playing us. But doesn’t it feel like this ONE thing being completely supernatural feels… odd and a bit out of place when everything else is human? It’s like a piece of a puzzle that fits, but only if you give it a bit of a push not quite like it was made to fit. It’s just one isolated mystery about one isolated character. Odd no?

That’s just your perfectionism speaking. It’s that one odd piece that makes Higurashi so fascinating to me.

Hahahaha. You’re probably right. I’ve always felt like the mystery for Higurashi is a little lacking in some minor points. Don’t get me wrong; I love Higurashi to death. I just feel like there are some kinks in it. It could also be that part of it comes from me not having read the preceding chapters, as I said before. Possibly my opinion might be tempered by the presence of the supernatural prior to Meakashi. If that were the case then I can see where a reader would take what they see in Meakashi with a pretty big grain of salt and leave room for fantasy in their theories.

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