Pact of the Abandoned Witch

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#102

It appears that after entering the kitchen at 10:30, Genji was never alone until midnight. Considering the key had been in Genji’s possession until then, I’d like to confirm some things.

It is possible to remove a gun from the gun room when the door is locked. Perhaps there is a gap in there somewhere that makes it possible to move a gun through as long as you’ve prepared some way to tug at the gun from the other side.

It is possible to open the door to the gun room even if it is locked. Perhaps the door is faulty somehow.

I’d expect neither of those are possible. Since it has been confirmed that only the key Genji had can unlock the door to the gun room and that there are no hidden passages, options become quite limited.

Genji entered the gun room after dinner for some other purpose than cleaning it, allowing for someone to steal a gun. Maybe he just really likes guns and the gun room is his happy place he visits every day to calm down from the stress of servant work.

Genji and Gohda washing the dishes and cleaning up took place in both the dining room and the kitchen, meaning they were not in each other’s line of sight all the time. This means Genji could’ve shot Rudolf from the dining hall when Gohda was washing dishes in the kitchen, for example.

#103

Your instincts are, once again, spot on.

There is no way to remove the gun from the gun room without the person taking it being inside of the room. In other words, there are no gaps through which the gun could’ve been taken from the gun room without someone being in the room to take it.

For the second blue, I seem to remember confirming fairly early on, but just for good measure: Once a door is locked, it cannot be unlocked, much less opened, without a key. The door to the gun room is in perfect condition.

To finally put that third option to the rest: Genji never went to the gun room after dinner, until he led the others to the room the following morning, which was after the body was found.

The last one I’ll just say isn’t the case. In any of the scenarios - they gave alibis for each other, they were in each other’s sights. If I went about having to give a red here I’d have to deal with any variation of that for different times. Just trust me on this one, no deceptions here. People were in the rooms they confirmed their alibis for.

#104

Genji never went to the gun room after dinner is interesting as it more or less confirms Genji couldn’t have been the killer. The gun was in the gun room when dinner ended, thus it is impossible for Genji to gain access to the murder weapon. At least without some contrived chain of events where someone else first removes the gun from the gun room without being an accomplice.

Previously, you said in red that at the moment directly after Kanon left the kitchen, the key was still in Genji’s possession. However, Kanon left the kitchen twice - first when Genji sent Kanon away for his other duties sometime after 10:30, and once after Kanon entered the kitchen with Kumasawa and told Genji about what had happened in Kinzo’s study. The above red refers to the latter time Kanon left the kitchen. Thus, it is possible that Kanon stole the key from Genji before he left the kitchen for the first time, and returned it when he came back to report about the events in Kinzo’s study. This gives him an opportunity to steal a gun immediately after he left the kitchen for the first time.

#105

The red above referred to the first time Kanon left the kitchen, as he left Genji and Gohda as they were starting to clean the kitchen, obviously before he received his hand injury. My bad, probably should’ve clarified.

#106

Considering all the red we have so far, it seems like there’s no possibility other than someone stealing the gun room key from Genji and returning it to him after stealing a gun, and the only person with the opportunity to do all that would be Kanon. So, I have to look for loopholes in red.

The key was still in Genji’s possession right after Kanon left the kitchen… but immediately after leaving the kitchen, Kanon stole the key from Genji in the dining room. Genji was there to clean up after the dinner.

You’ve mentioned that groups won’t disband without it being mentioned in the narrative, as that would kill the point of the whole alibi section of the story, but I’d like it if you confirmed if people who are alone cannot stealthily enter a room a group is in without them noticing. If they can, one could theorize that soon after Kanon left the kitchen, he briefly returned to steal the key from Genji without either Genji or Gohda noticing.

#107

No, no, NO I don’t want to figure out that darned gun room.

Rudolf unsuccessfully tried to commit suicide with one of those guns… before any of this, on some other day in the past. The bullet was still inside his head but didn’t hit the vital organ yet. That night, after an ominous talk with Kyrie, Rudolf heard Kanon’s scream and got out of bed. By the time he got to the main hall, everyone was gone and he just saw the blood. This seriously spooked him, so he taped up the bedroom and painted the magic circle for protection. However, the stress of this made his wound open up and moved the bullet into his brain, killing him instantly.

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#108

I am unable to completely deny the concept in its entirety, since, for instance, there’s a possibility that the culprit had snuck into Rudolf and Kyrie’s room while they slept, and then someone would’ve claimed that was a group too, and then I would’ve gotten a headache. So let’s just take it like this: A group would’ve seen someone attempting to enter the room they are in and noted it in their testimony. The only exception to this rule is if all of the members of the group are asleep. Naturally, all of the times the groups went to sleep are noted in their testimonies. Meaning, no, Genji and Gohda did not end up randomly passing out in the kitchen or something.

Worst thing about patching these holes and definitions is that I’m always paranoid I’ll end up somehow redding out basic things the narrative already established or just unintentionally just decisively mislead players without meaning to. Doesn’t seem like that’s happened so far but…

As I advised before, this is not a loophole game and we’ve still managed to avoid wordplay territory, I’m pretty sure. There’s still time to save ourselves.

As for you, Rune…

I won’t let you escape the gun room. Get back in there.

Rudolf’s death was, as I believe I’d confirmed earlier, instantaneous. This means that he died the moment he was shot.

#109

Yeah, I’m not happy about having to resort to looking for loopholes - I’m just a bit out of ideas for now, so I’m grasping at straws. Anyhow, I’d like to point out that there was no response to the blue that Kanon stole the gun room key from Genji after leaving the kitchen but before leaving the group altogether, which is possible if Genji either entered the dining room at the same time as Kanon left the kitchen, or if he already was there as a part of his after-dinner cleaning duties. The way the alibi text is written suggests to me that cleaning both the kitchen and the dining room were a part of what Gohda and Genji were doing for most of the evening, so Genji relocating to the dining room does not contradict anything, I think.

#110

There’s a third, unreliable perspective. The second time we’re Kyrie, we’re actually Kyrie. (pronounced ‘Kairee’)

OK I’ll come back later.

#111

Dining room cleaning came after the kitchen. And leaving the kitchen counted as Kanon leaving the group.

Once again - trick isn’t about how groups worked or anything like that. And we probably shouldn’t get into definitions of rooms if we don’t have to, then the reasoning will start going all over the place.

Just think about the chain of events. I’ve hidden absolutely nothing from you. And I mean that as literally as I could possibly get.

#112

Kinzo asked Genji for a gun from the gun room, at the time, he didn’t have any intention to murder anyone and gave a perfectly reasonable explanation for wanting the gun. However, while in the possession of the gun, even though Shannon did her best to stay with him, he managed to escape her sight and leave the study, he then killed Rudolf and returned, Shannon didn’t notice the gun with him and, after being calmed down and having Genji put the gun back on its place, Genji didn’t suspect, even after hearing Rudolf was shot, that still wasn’t enough to make him suspect the Master he had sworn his loyalty to, and most certainly imagined the killer had brought a gun besides the ones from the gun room. And of course, Genji never entered the gun room himself, so it can still be sid he never went to the gun room.

#113

Let’s write down some reasoning, then.

The gun used to kill Rudolf was in the gun room when the dinner ended, and the gun room door was locked. It is impossible to get the gun from the room without going inside, it is impossible to go inside without opening the door, it is impossible to open the door without unlocking it, and only the single gun room key Genji had can unlock the door. Genji never went into the gun room after dinner before next day. Genji had the key in his possession until he came to the kitchen at 10:30. All this is confirmed in red.

Since Rudolf was not killed by a trap or a remote mechanism of any kind, someone must’ve gone inside the gun room after dinner. As doing so requires the key, this was impossible before 10:30. The only way to get the key is to steal it from Genji, as it is confirmed in red that he never parted with the key from his own volition. However, as Genji was locking up the mansion sometime after midnight, the key was on his person. We can trust his word on this, because Genji can’t be the culprit as he never entered the gun room. The alibi descriptions for the groups are reliable and it was impossible for anyone to stealthily steal or return Genji’s key without being in Genji’s group as described in the narrative.

So, who are the people who were in Genji’s group? First, Gohda. However, it has been confirmed in red that Gohda did not steal the key from Genji, meaning Gohda is not the culprit. Second, Kanon. Kanon was briefly with Genji from 10:30 onwards, after which he left on his own. However, when Kanon left at that time, the key was on Genji. The next time Kanon joined Genji’s group was when he and Kumasawa reported to him about Kinzo at 11:40. Kanon could have stolen the key then, but since he never rejoined Genji before Genji locked the mansion, he has no opportunity to return the key. The narration would have mentioned all instances of leaving a group, so Kanon couldn’t have stolen the key at 10:30, stolen a gun, returned to the kitchen, returned the key, and then been sent by Genji to attend to other duties.

Kumasawa joined Genji at 11:40, but she remained in his group until the mansion was locked, meaning she had no opportunity to steal a gun. Shannon and Nanjo joined Genji’s group a bit before midnight, and then left together for the guest house, meaning they did not have a chance to return the key, either.

Nobody else is mentioned as having joined Genji’s group during the first day, so nobody else had the chance to steal the key. Thus, it seems like there is no opportunity for anyone to have committed this crime. Genji opening the door to the gun room for someone else and keeping quiet about it would label him an accomplice, and thus wouldn’t work.

Right now, I don’t see any way around the key theft issue. It could be that I have some detail wrong somewhere, or that I’m overlooking something major. In any case, now I really have to focus on other stuff, so I have to let this mystery be for a while. Perhaps when I return, things have become clear.

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#114

I think for that solution to work, I would’ve had to have lied to you straight to your faces at least three or so times.

  1. I confirmed that the gun was in the gun room at the time of dinner and that Genji did not go there or just given the key to someone.
  2. Shannon would’ve most definitely noticed Kinzo, who is having an episode, trying to leave the study.
  3. Genji would still be an accomplice in this instance.
#115

Actually you wouldn’t have to lie even once:

  1. Genji didn’t go in the gun room, he just opened it for Kinzo, and there’s time for that to happen after dinner.
  2. Shannon did notice him leaving, that’s why she said she “did her best to stay with him”, however, maybe she got stuck amongst the mess in the study and was unable to leave before Kinzo’s return.
  3. Genji wouldn’t be an accomplice because Kinzo didn’t have the intention to kill anyone, so he assumed the gun Kinzo got from the gun room wasn’t used.
#116

Only a matter of time before “Maria let’s play ghost 2.0” theory.

  1. …Would there have been? It’s implied Nanjo and Kinzo had been playing chess until Shannon showed up.
  2. Kinzo did not leave the study during his episode. In addition, “did her best” is still a heavy stretch; it was referring to keeping hom calm and at bay. What could’ve possibly been a bigger priority for her than going after and seeing where this clearly deranged man had run off to? Him casually leaving and then coming back to only then have an episode would then most certainly be Shannon lying.
  3. Genji would’ve still been an accomplice. Recall the analogy about the friend and the white lie. Your friend might’ve not had the intention of killing anyone when he asked you to lie for him, but he still killed someone and you continuing to lie is still undeniably helping a murderer.
#117

That red truth is enough for me o back down, honestly I feel Kyrie is suspicious, but it’s tough to prove her the culprit given the narration. I feel like there are 3 major questions that need to be answered, the construction of the closed room is probably pretty much figured out, now all that’s left i to figure out how Rudolf died and how the gun was acquired. I noticed the gun could have been acquired as early as 9:00. And, you say Genji never went to the gun room after dinner, and the gun was there when the dinner ended and that the door was locked, so Genji was inside the gun room when the dinner ended, the door was locked even though he was inside it, Genji left with a gun after dinner ended, that way there are no contradictions to the reds given so far.

#118

Nobody was inside the gun room at the time dinner ended.

#119

I have little time, so I haven’t thought about the implications of my finding, but I’ve looked up who passed the first floor in the time between dinner and murder and here is what I’ve come up with:

10.40: Kumasawa
about 10.50: Kumasawa and Nanjo
11.15: Kumasawa, Kanon and Nanjo
11.40: Kanon and Kumasawa
before 12.00: Shannon and Nanjo

Apparently Kumasawa was the only one who had a chance to take one of the guns!

#120

This has already been suggested.

…By you, actually.

“Directly to doctor nanjo”, of course, means that she didn’t make any detours, which in this case would’ve been the gun room.

#121

Rudolf goes to storage room. Kinzo’s rage causes tremors that make one of the guns in the gunroom shoot into the ground, into Rudolf’s head. Later, Kinzo wakes up and wanders around the mansion. He finds Rudolf and does the locked room thing to salvage this mess as a sacrifice to Beatrice. For that he hides inside the room until morning and then arrives last. Kanon notices the bullet hole at the end and realizes what happened.

Probably won’t fly cause no traps, but it’s an edge case so might as well throw it in.