Wow, we have the same top four, just rearranged.
Iām amazed that my personal favorite, Ep4, is so low in the polls. The rose garden fight scene alone is so amazing on so many levels in so many ways, both for the many layers of whatās going on with Battler and Beatrice, and Dreamend Discharger is my personal favorite track of all time.
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Episode 7 was my lifeā¦in it that a lot was explained, but also so fitting as a closing of the curtains so to speak (Ep7 spoilers) with the introduction of Lion and Will, two favourites, and the whole set up as āBeatriceās funeralā the whole solemn and acceptance feel of the Ep was what really moved me. I also really enjoyed to read about Yasu, even if it in a sense was exposing and ātearing the gutsā of Beato. Of course the solemn vibe shattered before leading to Ep8, but it had a beautiful overall feeling. I kind of see it as a more true ending to the tale of Rokkenjima and Beatrice, while Ep8 was more for Angeās sake.
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Hereās how I rank them.
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Episode 5 - Easily my favorite. This episode was such a great introduction to Chiru. I love how it places the focus back onto Natsuhi, who up to this point was my absolute favorite Umineko character in the series. Then it introduces Erika who eventually became my favorite character in the series. And it also introduces Dlanor who is my third favorite character in the series. Itās the perfect mixture for it to become my favorite episode. Seeing how Erika works and functions is both equally entertaining and frustrating. Sheās the perfect character to show us how we shouldnāt go about solving the mystery. Seeing Natsuhiās struggle is heartwrenching and I love the direction they took with her character here. Sheās even more sympathetic than she already was and you really feel for her. It also had a really good mix of magic and meta world elements. The meta elements never go overboard and are perfectly understandable. The only problem with the episode is the Gold Truth, which is a huge asspull and is never used again in the same way. Aside from that itās fantastic.
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Episode 3 - This was the point where Umineko began to show itās true colors. The introduction of Evatrice was a real surprise, and I love what she brought to the table. She not only was a very entertaining character, but I like how she complimented the characters of Eva and Beatrice and helped to develop each of then. It also introduced Ronove and Virgilia which were good additions who offered added a lot the meta since before this it was mostly just Beato and Battler going back and forth. It also is the episode where weāre given a lot more hints and tools to use against magic. Weāre told how to fight back against the magic scenes, and I like seeing Battler growing and in a way solving most of the mystery here as oppose to the second episode.
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Episode 7 and 8 - Couldnāt decide which one is better. While Episode 7 gives us a lot of answers, Episode 8 ends off Umineko so damn well. Episode 7 is a lot more somber than the other episodes, and I think it fits really well. This episode pretty much exists to give us answers, and the answers arenāt exactly super happy ones. Along with that, it introduces Will and Lion who are great additions. Especially Will, who is one of my favorite characters in the series. I like the way he was able to reach the answer, and the way he handled the entire situation. Episode 8 is a very exciting episode, and it ties up all the themes of Umineko perfectly. I loved the scene after Ange fell asleep in particular, and I like how the Riddle scene not only offered up lots of fun riddles, but gave closure for a lot of characters and their arcs. Everything else about it was fantastic. It went in some really creative directions. While it went full on fantasy here, I mostly felt it fit Umineko in some very weird way. The threat is presented in a way that makes sense and helped to add greater understanding onto the world of Umineko.
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Episode 4 - This episode is better than it seems to be given credit for. I admit that some of the Ange parts were incredibly boring, but thereās still a ton of good here. I really liked the Angeās role in the meta world, the gameboard was very exciting, and need I mention Maria. I adore the Maria segments here so much. Everything about Maria this episode was so well done. I love that they didnāt just give us a normal abused child story. They really went into great detail about the way Maria thinks and offered very interesting perspective on how to interpret her situation. I also like how they make Rosa a bit more than just a child abuser. Sheās given a lot of depth here, and while her rant against Maria was very mean, you could really see where she was coming from. Thereās also the reveal of why Maria says āUu uu,ā which is one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. My jaw dropped there. Thereās a lot to love in this episode, so Iām surprised it isnāt rated higher.
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Episode 1 - Solid first episode, it just drags a bit in the beginning. It plays mostly like a standard mystery, so itās very different from the other episodes. Like pretty much every episode, I like how it ends, and of course Natsuhiās character steals the show. I just really love her character and you get to see so many sides to her here that she easily became my favorite right then and there.
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Episode 2 - Episode 2 is an episode I really need to reread. Apparently it has a ton of hints. But they went over my head, and Iām certain I can appreciate it more when I go through it again. This episode was still at a point where Umineko was still introducing itself and the kind of story it is to the audience, so itās not able to stand as high as other episodes as weāre still getting used to the mechanics of this world. I also think that unlike episode 1 where the focused character, Natsuhi was presented well, I thought the opposite of Rosa. Most of her relationship with Maria is explained in Episode 4, so this episode suffers a lot if youāre reading it for the first time. Thereās still some good in it, itās just that itās not as good as the others in my mind.
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Episode 6 - I like episode 6, but itās probably the one that I had the most conflicted feelings on while reading it. The problem with episode 6 is how different it is from previous episodes. The series up to this point has conditioned the audience about how to think about the magic in Umineko and to try to figure out how itās humanly possible for a person to commit the crimes. But this episode makes Battler be on the side of witches, and weāre supposed to be on his side. I personally want to be, but with how Iāve been thinking about Umineko up to episode 6, I canāt help but cheer for Erika here. This is especially so since this episode has Erika at her absolute best. We get some backstory for her and we get tons of great scenes involving her. Erika steals the show here, and having conflicting interests from the side Iām supposed to be on makes a lot of the episode fall flat. I also think it has too many layers to it. By this I mean that there is so much going on at the same time that we constantly have one story interrupted for another and scenes arenāt allowed to sink in as much as they should. I still have things I like about Episode 6. Like I said, Erika is amazing here, and I really like climax of it, but thereās still a lot of just kind of okay stuff to sit through as well. Hopefully now that I have more of an understanding of Umineko, Iāll be able to go back to Episode 6 and like it, but for now itās my least favorite episode.
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Okay, so now that Iāve finally got some time to post something, I think Iām going to start with my own little ranking of the episodes like @pik3rob. Itās something Iāve been thinking about for quite some time, so Iāll try to develop my opinion as much as possible. Iād be very glad to discuss it with you all as it seems we all have a very personal and strong point of view!
So, letās start by the bottom! Btw, as I may consider this thread being full series spoilers, Iāll only write the name of the episode inside the spoiler to keep some sense of suspense. And, I may also add that Iāve currently read Umineko three times, plus all of the manga up to EP6.
Okay, letās start for real!
NĀ°8 Legend of the golden witch: So, we start with episode 1, which is, surprisingly (at least in my opinion), not ranked last most of the time, despite being near it. And I can understand why, it is a very good episode, and as the introduction to the series, it does a great job with its latter half full of intense moments and with a perfect murder mystery story atmosphere. The ending is really great with a lot of suspense and it has one hell of a climax when Dead Angle plays for the first time and everything ends at midnight without anything being resolved. And of course, the Tea Party is such a great and fundamental twist for the rest of the series. Despite that, I find that the first half of the episode really drags on sometimes, even though all of the information is necessary. Even on the second day, there are some moments of reflexion by the characters which I find a bit too long. However, these scenes are still really well-written, full of details (mostly on reread), so these are mostly the first two/three hours before we get on Rokkenjima (and reach the rose garden scene) that bring down this episode. So, I rank it last without a doubt, even though I already love it a lot and am somehow never tired of rereading through it. Btw, I just noticed something the other day, Nanjo must have already been on the island the day before the family conference since he never took any boat (or at least it was not shown). Krauss and Natsuhi donāt mention it, but thatād be logical since he has to play his part to keep the illusion of Kinzo alive.
NĀ°7 Turn of the golden witch: I am somehow saddened to rank this one so low as it is so insightful on reread and Iāve come to greatly appreciate it over time. So this is only because all of the others are even better and because Turn still suffers from some pacing issues very much like Episode 1. All of that apart, I still canāt believe how much this episode puts us in the culpritās shoes and we still utterly fail to notice it on first reading. 'Cause Iām gonna be honest, to me Turn feels like the real answer arc of Umineko along wih Requiem. All of the scenes before the family conference with Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice are so painful and so painfully clear on reread. The fact that this was written by Yasu even give it greater value, which is something Requiem does not have. Of course, everything is told in metaphors with the fantasy narrative that allows the different personas to be portrayed at the same time, but unlike whatās showed in Requiem, I feel like there is no embellishment in the feelings that are expressed. And this reaches its culmination in what has always been one of my favorite scenes even before I understood its meaning - the ultimate confrontation between Shannon and Beatrice. My god, this one scene is just as horrible as Requiemās Tea Party. Once you understand it, you can just feel all of the pain tearing Yasu apart, and itās one of the most heart-wrenching thing Iāve ever known. I canāt recall how many times Iāve wondered in what kind of extreme state of mind Yasu must have been when she killed George and maybe even revealed him what she really is, before killing herself. And the fact that this scene starts with the first apparition of Worldenddominator even make it greater. About the rest of the episode, I really love how it lays the stress on the question of who we can trust and plays a lot with the characterās psychology, as well as with the player. The second twilight is the perfect example of this, I think youāll agree. This also leads to a ton of great scenes and the whole of the second day is such a ride, it still amazes me on reread. Moreover, Turn is one of the two Episode where Maria and Rosaās relationship is really developed to its maximum, up until that ultimate scene of ābest mom ever shows goats a golden dreamā. When you realise that the truth of that scene is that theyāre running away from the bomb, it even gets more intense. I think thatās part of why I love Episode 2 fantasy scenes so much, because in Yasuās hands they really have a ton of meaning behind them. Just the other day I thought about Kanon revealing is ābladeā to Jessica in the second twilight to fight the goatā¦ could that mean what I think? Did it really happen this way? Thatād be even more horrible. Finally, Episode 2 really strikes me as being the cruelest episode of them all, I mean that it is the one with the most gore elements. The obvious examples are of course the 1st twilight, the banquet at the end with Battler reduced to being furniture and the Tea Party. I think this really reflects Yasuās unimaginable distress and how she is disgusted of reality, of herself and even of magic in the end. So yeah, to sum up, this episode really lays the stress on mental distress, which is even more obvious on reread. I feel like there is so much material for analysis here, but I wonāt expand any further.
Wow, I had not intented to write already that much! Iāll try to post the rest tomorrow or at least soon. There are so much things I want to say, and not only in this thread, but unfortunately I donāt have that much time right now, even though it shall be better this weekend. As Iāve said in the beginning, Iād really love to hear your opinions and discuss it all!
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Iām surprised at how unpopular episodes 2 isā¦
Episode 2 was the episode that hooked me on Umineko. I remember having crazy amounts of fun reading it for the first time. Was I rooting for Beatrice? Yes. Iām sure that contributed.
On the re-read, I think episode 2 becomes even better. Some scenes become almost agonizing to read when they were only melancholy before. For example, the scene where Beatrice kills Shannon and George is too painful once you know the conditions of Sayo/Yasuās body and why she chose to kill herselfā¦ in front of a mirror, no less!
Itāll always be a favorite.
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I really like your summary of episode 2! It really makes you wonder what the other message bottles Yasu wrote contained and if some of them were equally as horrific. I always consider her portrayal of Beatrice to be incredibly interesting in comparison to the Beatrice that Tohya writes. It truly is a stark contrast. I especially love how the Beatrice in the Confessions chapters of the manga mirrors the behavior of Episode 2 Beatrice. Coupled together, itās made clear that Beatrice ended up shouldering the worst aspects of Yasuās inferiority complex. Really scary shit.
Even on the fantasy side, Beatrice seems to dive into the game spitting and hissing if only to pay Battler back for his incompetence. I always saw it as a power fantasy-- which of course becomes all the more twisted once you realize what kind of game sheās playing.
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I chose the first episode basically because I loved the horror side to it and all the mysteries but I donāt really have a preference to be honest. It just made me nostalgic.
Time for the next two episodes! I feel like both of them are as good as the other for different reasons, so the order could easily be reversed, but I have to make a choice. Here we go!
NĀ°6 Requiem of the golden witch: I know itās the favorite of a lot of people and I can completely understand why. This one has such a unique atmosphere, at the same time gentle, peaceful, sorrowful. The OST is incredible and reflects that with some superb pieces such as āl&d-circulationā or the very underrated āfallā. It is centered around new characters, Will and Lion, and they are plain awesome. We finally get the closest to what we can call āanswersā in Umineko, so there is also a certain amount of hype, with the solving of the epitaph for instance or when Yasuās story begins with āGolden nocturneā, thatās what I call real hype! The first part is really good to gather once again all the information necessary to pinpoint the āwhodunnitā and the little two chapters of Kinzoās past are very welcome and I dig them a lot. Then we finally get to what is maybe the most crucial part of Umineko, the culpritās story, told from the culpritās point of view. It is so essential to completely get the āwhydunnitā and it is very well-written meaning that the magic narrative is completely necessary as a part of the answer since thatās really the way Yasuās own world works. We are at the core of her character to understand her way of thinking and try to solve the riddle that she is, the biggest riddle of Umineko. Still, there is definitely some embellishment at the end with the solving of the epitaph and weāre not shown Yasuās real breakdown that will only appear briefly in the red-guts scene. We are also not told the last couple of years before the murder so we may only get an incomplete āwhydunnitā from EP7 alone if we do not search for the rest of the answers elsewhere, like in EP2 for instanceā¦ And I find that this a very wise move from RyĆ»kishi, because like Clair says, there was already enough told about the other culpritās struggles in the rest of the tale. So, Requiem is really centered around the āloveā part, Battlerās promise and its consequences, and the fact that there are some people who find that is a ridicule, bad, childish motive and thus reject Yasu and stop trying to understand her, that is something I absolutely canāt stand. Because even if you have understood only that part of the motive and find it a little strange, you should at least respect it the same way Will respects it even though he does not pretend to completely understand her. And man, the pure, genuine feeling of love are so well conveyed in the famous āwhite horseā scene with āSong without a nameā playing in the background, the same way the depression feels real when Shannon breaks down in front of Clair in the Golden Land. And then, there is whatās almost the ninth episode of Umineko, that huge Tea Party. There are so much things Iād have to say about it, but to sum up, this is for me the peak of horror of the series (the whole WTC series), this is the complete Rokkenjima nightmare, the cold, hard truth. Itās just pure insanity, pure evil and it completely breaks my heart. The complete contrast with the rest of the episode is just stunning. The red-guts scene is as short as it is intense and Yasuās real breakdown may really be the saddest part of Umineko.
NĀ°5 Banquet of the golden witch: This is such a fondamental episode because it really brings the story on a whole new level for the first time. The meta-world is starting to get more and more complete with the appearance of Ronove and Virgilia, the Chiester Sisters, we are finally given the rules in order to be able to fight against the witch and the events on the gameboard take an unexpected direction with Eva solving the epitaph and then ābecomingā Eva-Beatrice. It is also full of clues, we get information about Kuwadorian Beatrice and even about Beatrice true nature in the Tea Party with Lambda. The mystery appears challenging and great starting with the chain of closed room and with the web of red truth concerning Nanjoās murder at the end. But more importantly, this is the Episode where Beato and Battler relationship starts becoming really interesting and despite the final twist, we finally see a bit of Beatoās true face and this leads to a ton of really great moments in the second half of the episode. The last couple of hours are just so compelling to read, with more and more incredible OST appearing and with more and more twists. There are pure moments of hope, of despair, of sadness and of struggle, itās an emotional roller-coaster. Even on the human side there is great character development, with Eva of course, but also with Krauss who shows regrets, with Hideyoshi whoās got what may be his only time to shine of the series and also with Rudolf and Kyrie fighting against the sisters. I really love Banquet and the ending with the appearance of Ange could not have been greater.
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I enjoy Ep. 5 the most solely because of its court of illusions segment.
My two favorites episodes are 1 and 7.
I really like the first one because youāre constantly asking yourself what to belive, who to trust and what the fuck in going on. Youāre in that isolated island with the constant sound of the rain and you hear for the first time music like novelette that really set the mood for the whole novel.Thereās that ambiance thatās both chilling and frightening. Slowly, you start to apreciate that mood, even trough everybody is starting is die. And when you reach the end, a fucking witch appears right in front of you, tears your belifs apart (especially if youāve read Higurashi before) and makes you understand that the main plot really starts now.
And I really like episode 7 for similar reasons.This time, itās over, youāre 80+ hours into the game and are starting to realise that itās coming to an end. The characters feels the same and began some sort of the retrospective of the last 6 episodes, along with the unveiling of the last mysteries of the island. Thereās that strange feeling that everythingās coming to an end, and the game finally finds a conclusion, both narratively and thematically. To be honest, I think Umineko couldāve just stop there and itād have been perfect.
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It is funny because even though they are not my two favorites, I completely agree with everything you said! I think that itās just that the others have a more important emotional impact on me, and even when I re-read them. Still, EP7 is pretty strong in that sense too and some foreshadowing in EP1ā¦ argh. But itās so hard to rank them since they are all so beautifully done, masterfully crafted and plain awesome in their own way. It reminds me that I have still to finish my ranking but it will take some time as always.
I think EP1ā s eerie and mysterious atmoshpere is unnmatched, simply because of the sense of dread and isolation slowly consuming the island. Ironically, itās in my mind the episode where youāre most inclined to buy into magical presence - simply because of the fact that, even if Beatrice isnāt there, her presence is undeniable and rooted out through the entire thing. The fact you donāt know much about other characters really adds to it.
Still, doesnāt save it from a dreadfully slow crawl towards getting the gears moving, even though the exposition is necessary.
EP2 I also think had a lot of pacing issues, and a lot of the mysteries just arenāt that impressive upon rereading. But I think its strength is that the meta version of it is basically Battler and Beatrice in a room facing off for the first time, and you feel a lot of Battlerās struggles the first time around, wondering if he really gets to escape if he solves it all, and understanding how to interpret the fantasy scenes properly.
But still gotta go with EP5. Its mystery and finale were just the most fun for me.
A bit of an unpopular opinion here but my favourite was episode 4. I loved the Maria and Ange storyline and the fight scenes although confusing and rediculous added a lot more depth to a lot of characters. The whole episode overall made me like a lot more of the characters and I loved the theme of ātruth is in the eye of the beholder.ā
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Nah, EP4 was still good. I think it was a good way of communicating that the story was - and would undeniably end with - Ange, and already started to show what the point of it all was. I also liked the scene of Battler exploring the crime scenes, only to find that he was helplessly alone. The final confrontation was alright, not one of my favorites, but still got its point across quite well.
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Ange and Mario storyline couldāve been better if it wasnāt 5 hours long and if those two characters werenāt thatā¦unbearable.I wanted so much so slap them in the face, screaming āget your shit togetherā.Those two are so apathetic when facing situation that they clearly can overcome(especially in the case of Ange) that the reading is frustrating. That being said, itās not bad in itself, just long and painfull to read. And the second half of the episode is really good, the fights scenes are great and the Tea Party is a great conclusion to WTC3. And it maybe has the best soundtrack of the question arc.Mortal Stempede, Hibuta, Revolt, dreamenddischarger are great tracks.
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Yeah I agree that the ange and maria storyline could have been a lot shorter. I admit that I preferred the Maria scenes a lot more to the Ange bullying scenes.
I also liked the scene of Battler exploring the crime scenes, only to find that he was helplessly alone.
I feel that this part is so underrated since it is only the beginning of the Tea Party but I love it, in my opinion it is the best kind of āatmospheric tensionā stuff in the question arcs, even better than the ending of EP1. It feels just soā¦ surreal, Battler being all alone at last and discovering the corpses of everyone with no clue as to what happened, trying to play the detective a little and just feeling so drowsy like this isnāt even real. I think thatās RyĆ»kishiās āhorrorā writing at its best, like in Higurashi.
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I did on occasion wonder how it wouldāve looked, if the introduction to Umineko had been just EP4ās board, told entirely from Battlerās point of view. The paranoia and the anticipation of sitting in that room, watching your only companions leave one by one never to return, and finally walk outside yourself, meet a strange woman and have her disappear, find everyone else dead, and wonder what the fuck happened.
I also did find it funny that he actually searched the dining room for trapdoors. It made perfect sense for him to do so, but it was still funny.
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I think the manga adaptation for that part was perfect even though I donāt remember it in details, I know it managed to pass on that suffocating, desolating atmosphere.
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