I’m not there yet, so this is more distant memory, but I think the same goes for the Mariage Sorciere scenes in episode 4, so it’s not much of a wrench.
But okay, assuming I misremember. Rosa found her way to Kuwadorian by chance, perhaps Maria did too and perhaps there were still servants keeping Kuwadorian clean even after real life Beatrice died.
Interesting actually about Mariage Sorcière.
When you get to it, I’d like you to confirm that.
Thanks!
Now I’m wondering where your thoughts will lead you to Vyse.
So I just got a crack idea that no one has really discussed yet (I think) and that I haven’t really thought about full implications either, so I kinda wanna throw that idea out here so that others might be able to do that thinking while I focus my endeavours on my reread for now. So here goes nothing:
What if Kinzo and Genji switched positions at some distant point in the past?
It would be an alternative explanation for that scene in this episode where supposedly the entire family accepts someone as “Kinzo Ushiromiya”. But again, I haven’t really thought about full implications of this yet.
Mmmmm I guess it’s possible. I guess my main question would be, what about the toes? Granted, we don’t know the number of toes that Genji has. However, we do know that a corpse was found that did have six toes. If I remember the reds right it is guaranteed to be Kinzo (or at least the person people think is Kinzo).
Wow, I’m not quite sure where to start with this episode. I’m tempted to jump right to the end and start talking about “Who am I?” but I suppose I should touch on the rest of the episode leading up to that first. Apologies if I repeat things that have been thoroughly covered, I wanted to get my mostly untainted thoughts out there before going all the way down the rabbit hole of this 260 post thread. I see the problems with pacing that people have with this episode, but overall I really did enjoy the story of Ange and Maria. There may have been a few parts where it went on a little longer than it needed to, but overall, some great stuff which certainly did a lot to deepen my understanding of magic.
As for the actual game, it’s really hard to tackle because instead of neatly finding new crime scenes over the course of the day, we’re just fed a magic narrative and then can only verify the aftermath once it’s all over. It puts into doubt not just the nature of the deaths, but the timing as well. I think that the key to the mystery is multiple people entering the dining room with guns, killing some people, and then coercing the others into feeding Battler the magical narrative. The only closed room we’ve got to deal with here is with Kumasawa and Gohda in the storehouse. I believe this can be explained by a transfer of key to someone they thought they could trust, and then subsequent murder.
Now, on to the big questions: Who is Beatrice? What is Battler’s sin? Who is the culprit?
Even before what we get at the end of this episode, I think that the episode gives us a lot to build off of in terms of establishing Beatrice as a single individual, or at least establishing a single individual who claims to be Beatrice. This comes primarily from Beatrice’s connection to Maria, and the ability to connect Maria’s grimoire to the bottles and letters. So if we look at this from the perspective of “Beatrice is Maria’s friend”, then how can we work from that to find out their identity?
In the first three episodes, Maria claims to be given a letter by Beatrice. In the beginning I thought that there were so many ways to write this off, but now I’ve come to think that there really is someone on the island that Maria identifies as Beatrice. And this being the case, I want to turn my attention to the one time that Maria actually interacts with Beatrice in front of Battler: when Maria runs to Beatrice to be with her at the end of Episode 1. If we assume, for a moment, that this is the real “Beatrice”, the one Maria knows, then we can narrow down this person’s identity by quite a bit. Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Nanjo, Genji, Gohda, and Kumasawa are all, as far as I can tell based on the red truths and evidence, very dead. Kinzo is dead all along, Krauss’ death would be very hard to fake, everyone without a face is confirmed dead by red truth, and I believe Eva, Hideyoshi, and Natsuhi can be ruled conclusively dead because of the red stating that a homicide took place at all. Jessica, George, Battler, and Maria are of course all accounted for. This really only leaves Kanon and Shannon. The possibility of Kanon faking his death was something that I noted as far back as Episode 1, but kind of fell to the side as I focused more on those without faces. I believe the red truth we get in this episode supports the idea that Kanon didn’t actually die. Every reasonable cause of death is ruled out, so I think the simplest conclusion is that there simply wasn’t a death. I’d be content with calling Kanon the culprit, but when I revisited key scenes with increased skepticism after reading Episode 3, I couldn’t help but notice that Shannon’s death is not confirmed by Battler, and I can’t help but think that this is a deliberate move. It’s a well hidden fact, because it’s not something that a reader would necessarily think about while reading Episode 1, but which becomes much more obvious with the knowledge of how the narrative likes to mess with you.
I think that one of these two being Beatrice lines up really well with the other things that we know about Beatrice. It casts a whole new light on those scenes from the beginning of Episode 2, that’s for sure. Though I’d love to know if anyone has a counter as to how the Beatrice that appears at the end of Episode 1 is someone other than these two. I’m not sure how to narrow it down further. I’m leaning towards Shannon because of the fact that she was actually around to know Battler six years ago. Beatrice even references Battler’s middle school English in her phone call in Episode 4. I think that it’s entirely possible to smash through the twilights of the first two games using Shannon as a primary culprit and a few accomplices (Rosa being key in Episode 2), but Episode 3 is tricky, and makes me believe that there really are name games going on with the red truth, or I’m totally off base.
And as something of a side note: whoever Beato is, it would appear that she spent time as a child in Kuwadorian according to her Episode 3 flashback, which to me means that whoever it is has more going on in their past than we’re lead to believe. There’s a reference to a “grandfather”, and there’s only ever been one grandfather on Rokkenjima, as far as we know. If she’s Kinzo’s granddaughter, I’m leaning towards her being the child of “homunculus” Beatrice, as I don’t think any of Kinzo’s known grandchildren fit the qualifications to be Beatrice. Though there’s the possibility that any one of Kinzo’s children could have a child that through some strange circumstance ended up being raised in secret in Kuwadorian. Which, regardless of parentage, points me back to Shannon and Kanon again, as they fit in the right age range to be Kinzo’s grandchildren.
As for how Battler dies at the end, I’m going to go with an explosion. I don’t know if I would have thought of it independently while trying to solve the murder, but while trying to reconcile the body parts, the incident being an accident, and the talk of lost books on Rokkenjima, I came to the theory that the incident on Rokkenjima ends with a bang.
While I will speak of myself through most of this post, do note that everything that has been said in the four threads has influenced my thinking, so even if I end up solving this beast, it is in part through all of your help. So if you have posted in these threads, thank you very much!
This means I have now finished my reread of Umineko. Throughout my reread, I was looking for answers. And I wanted to have an as open as possible outlook as possible, so to some regard I went through it without already suspecting one single individual, even though another part of me did exactly that. So basically, what I did was look at each individual murder or group of murders and list everyone who had the ability to do that particular murder. I only considered someone as cleaned from suspicion if A: they were observed by Battler at the time of the murder or B: a red truth made it impossible for them to commit that particular murder. However, I still went at it with as open a perspective as possible, so as an exception to B, I ignored any and all red truths regarding Kanon’s and Shannon’s life or death status under the argument of vacuous truths that has been brought up in this thread repeatedly. So without further ado, here is that list of potential suspects for each murder:
So what I see looking at this list now is that Kanon and Shannon are still suspects for pretty much everything. Rosa has to be involved in episode 2, and Eva is very likely to be involved in episode 3. Episode 4 is just one giant clusterfuck of who even knows, so it tells us nothing in terms of lowering our list of suspects. Of course, one can assume that the culprit who planned shit from the beginning was hijacked by someone else in one or more episodes, so what I end up with is the list of Kanon, Shannon, Rosa and Eva as likely candidats to be this Beatrice. Furthermore, it is likely that Nanjo is an accomplice if it is Kanon or Shannon at least, as he always helps them fake their death in that case. For that matter, note that there really is no one that could have killed Kanon in episode 1. (And Then There Were None spoilers)As a funny sidenote, with this we have yet another reference to Agatha’s story, as in both the doctor helps the true culprit fake their death with a wound that everyone would automatically assume to cause death. Well, if Kanon is the culprit, that is.
I myself would like to think that the murder plot wasn’t hijacked in episode 1 at least, so for that reason my order of most suspicious to least suspicious (to be Beatrice, remember) is:
I will say right here that I will consider it as a partial victory for myself if any of those five options above ends up being the correct one.
Anyhow, now with these options laid bare, we need something else to try to figure out which one is the correct one. And our main clue for that is of course Battler’s sin, although there are other clues as well.
For Eva, I honestly have no clue what his sin could be. So if you’re reading this and you wanna make an Eva-culprit theory, I’d be curious to hear it!
For Rosa, his sin would probably be leaving the family register, as that would remind Rosa of being left alone by Maria’s father.
And now we get to the most likely options, as for all three the sin would be the same. This is also the one I myself believe to be correct. As @Seraphitic and I think others have reasoned, I think this sin would be Battler promising to return to Shannon but in the end never doing so. Sera already brought up some points in the story that suggest this, but there’s even more. I myself think that Beato was also in part trying to get a message across to Battler with these murders and the fates surrounding the actors in this tragedy. One of these things is Beato explaining in episode 2 the three ways to hurt a woman: “Hurt her with a blade, hurt her heart or betray her expectations.” Not long after that Beato says a red truth that doesn’t seem to add to any mystery at all, but might actually be a hint to this sin we’re breaking our head over: I keep my promises. Almost seems to me like she’s saying that Battler did not keep a promise. And then the entirety of episode 3, with the North Wind and Sun strategy. This might simply be Beato making Battler experience how it feels to be betrayed. And she finally outright asking in episode 4, I really see a progression there, basically a “How much more to I have to hint at it until you finally realize what you did?”
By now you’re probably saying to yourself “Okay, this is all connected to Shannon, so why is Kanon your most likely suspect?” Well, this is mainly because Beato says that she didn’t exist for Battler 6 years ago. What I believe happened is that Shannon was truly hurt by what Battler did, and cried about it to Kanon. While Shannon herself eventually got over it, even starting a new relationship with George, for Kanon this was still an important thing, and perhaps in part caused Kanon not being able to see love, since he saw that very same love hurting his sister. So basically, as a defense mechanism, he wasn’t able to embrace loving someone else, which is why he refused Jessica even though he seemed to have feelings for her. Perhaps he even viewed his sister as breaking that original promise when she started going out with George. So yeah, this is one aspect for why the incident happened. However, it is only one. It isn’t the entire reason.
So now that we cleared up the topic of Battler’s sin, let’s look at Kanon, who I believe to be the culprit, and the mysterium that is Beatrice in detail. (This is also the point where I start to make some baseless assumptions, trying to tie a lot of things in this story together.) Well, and to look at Beatrice, we need to look at Kinzo for a bit as well. So we know that Kinzo had a mistress named Beatrice. Let’s call her Beatrichi for future reference. I believe that we never saw Beatrichi. No, I think she died at some point far in the past, but she is the one that gave Kinzo the gold. Now I believe that later on Kinzo found a child that he believed to be a reincarnation of Beatrice. This is the Beatrice that we saw in Rosa’s flashback, the one that was raised in Kuwadorian and that died some 20 years ago. Let’s call her Bea-nii. Like I said, Bea-nii is dead. However, I think that Kinzo truly believed he experienced a miracle, having found Beatrice again. And if this assumption is correct, then this could be the root cause for his involvement with the Fukuin House, the orphanage Kanon and Shannon are from. What I basically believe happened is that after Bea-nii died, Kinzo hoped to repeat that miracle, to find another reincarnation of Beatrice. That is why he wanted orphans from that house to work for him as servants, to test himself whether maybe, just maybe, one of those orphans is his beloved Beatrice. Perhaps one of those tests was showing them Kuwadorian, trying to discern if they recognize this second mansion. So basically, what I’m saying is that not only did Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa know about the hidden mansion, but all servants from the Fukuin House as well. So now let us make another asumption. What if Kanon actually recognized Kuwadorian? In reality this was probably due to Shannon talking about it, but for Kinzo this probably was kind of a dilemma. The miracle actually happened again, he found Beatrice again (let’s call him Beatrice-san), but he’s a boy, so something can’t be right! So while he might have exclaimed “Beatrice!” at first, he promptly denied that again. In Kanon however this might have created a sort of escapism persona, and shortly after he founded Mariage Sorciere together with Maria. After all, the most important part of this alliance is that each acknowledges the existence of the other.
Following Mariage Sorciere, both first wanted to add others into the alliance, Kanon inviting Kumasawa as Virgilia, which as a reallife senpai and perhaps advisor in servitude would make sense as a teacher even though she was added later; and Maria inviting Ange, which we know eventually lead to Ange destroying that fantasy a bit by denying Sakutaro’s existence.
Following Kinzo a bit, I believe that he then came up with the idea of the epitaph to find the next reincarnation of Beatrice. He basically believed that only Beatrice would be able to solve the riddle. This is why the name Beatrice is also inherited to the one who solves the Epitaph. Whether Kanon knows the solution, I’m actually not sure. It could be, it could also not be.
Back to Mariage Sorciere, later on it took a change for the worse, with the two imagining how to take revenge on their abusers instead. That’s where another part of the motive to the disaster lies. And then there’s of course the how. How the murders happened. This is basically to prove that magic exists, both to the family, which is why all those closed rooms are employed and why the epitaph is used as inspiration, and to the rest of the world, which is why multiple message bottles have been sent out and why everything is ended with an explosion, most likely, as it probably wouldn’t hold up against a police investigation.
So I hope this little theory at the end here was enjoyable to read. If you think someone else is the main culprit, feel free to make a similarly compelling theory, I have heard there was at least one culprit theory that gained a lot of traction and ended up being wrong (I of course don’t know which culprit theory that was, perhaps it was a theory similar to mine and I am wrong all along), so even though it might seem to you like there’s nothing left to think about after this post, do not stop thinking. However, if I ended up hitting the mark, I’ll view it as a greater victory than just the one I mentioned above. We’ll see once Chiru hits steam. Hope to see you all then!
EDIT: Ohh whoops, forgot, here’s all the notes I took while rereading:
This theory is pretty thorough, i like your reasoning concerning Kanon’s motivation and the theory about multiple Beatrices. I would very much like to see a timeline detailing all of the murders and how they were committed across each episode, to solidify your stance. I think it could also be helpful to try and work out a timeline of events before the game starts, considering the death of Beatrice and Kinzo before the game it might help to iron out your thought process there. I hope to hear what others have to say as well, I unfortunately am restricted to light comments and a spectator’s role.
Hmm, would you think that Kanon would go to all that effort, just because Battler hurt Shannon’s feelings? I mean, he is very protective, somewhat feisty and outspoken about what he thinks, but would he go that far? There’s also something else you need to consider, if Kanon is Beatrice, then why does he hate Beatrice so much and doesn’t want any of her help in the form of magic, and then, according to you, proceeds to be Beatrice and use magic? Good theory though, I enjoyed reading it.
The how-to of the various murders with Kanon as a culprit is already lined out in this thread at earlier points, so I don’t really wanna needlessly repeat that, we can talk about that in PMs if you want. A general timeline for the past as I lined it out though, I can give that.
This is not some small thing, I believe that for Kanon this basically flipped a switch, causing him to close his heart. I believe that this spawned a core believe in him that love is a thing that can only cause suffering. Really, though, look at the interactions especially during the disaster between Shannon and Beatrice and replace Beato with Kanon in your head, the scenes still make sense.
Does he really, though? We already know that Beato is a good actress, so it’s really not that much of a leap to assume that the true culprit, Kanon in my theory, is a good actor as well. Pretty much every character in this story dislikes Beatrice in some way, shape, or form, with the exception of Maria, but Maria is not the culprit. So we can’t really take that as an indicator. So I would assume that any ill feelings to Beatrice are a form of misdirection. But in the case of my theory, I can even go so far to assume that Kanon perhaps dislikes the previous Beatrice or concept of her, and wants to change the perception of her by, well, being Beatrice himself.
Hmm, yes, that definitely makes sense, with both Beatrice and Kanon being distrusting towards love and such, albeit the former hides it well. As for you argument that Kanon and Beatrice are good actors, and that Kanon’s ‘hatred’ towards her is just misdirection, I’d have to disagree with you. I mean, think about it, would Ryukishi truly want to misdirect the reader…? What I mean to say is, believe a bit more in the authenticity of those scenes.
Considering the amount of red herrings the story has without a doubt no matter which theory you side with, yes, he does want to misdirect the reader to some degree. But either way, I did give an explanation that doesn’t require me to say “lol misdirection”.
Me two weeks ago: “I’m going to finish my reread and write up a thorough explanation of my theories before Umineko Chiru comes out.”
Me today: “Oh Seraphitic, you silly goose.”
So yeah, I didn’t finish my reread (shocking I know). However, I would like to still get my theories out there albeit in a form that isn’t as thorough and rigorous as I would like. I’ll make my general thoughts known hoping that I’ll be able to fill in some details later on. Mostly I just want this writeup to be done prior to Chiru launch.
With that out of the way:
Q. Who is Beatrice?
A. There have been a total of three Beatrices in the past. One was the ‘Original’ Beatrice. This is the Beatrice that Kinzo first met (probably in Italy). The second would have been probably an illegitimate daughter between this first Beatrice and Kinzo. This second Beatrice is the one that Rosa sees. The final Beatrice is, in my opinion, Sayo.
Now in terms of evidence I feel like mostly I shall be relying on Beatrice’s own story to Battler as well as Rosa’s testimony. It definitely seems, as Genji and even Nanjo say in the first two episodes, that Beatrice was a kind of mistress of Kinzo but that she died. However, they seem to be referring to the first Beatrice. Beatrice herself says that this first Beatrice died but her spirit was put into a homunculus. Now we could interpret this in multiple ways such as Battler’s theory that she died during childbirth. Regardless we now have a second Beatrice. Now, let us assume that Rosa is not lying about Beatrice v2. We see a Beatrice that is about 20 years old. The year should be sometime after 1967 (due to Ronove’s red truth that Beatrice existed on Rokkenjima as a human). So, if we were to assume that there was only one Beatrice then the first Beatrice, one that was supposedly Kinzo’s lover and gave him the gold would have to have been a toddler when the mansion was being built. I think we can see how this wouldn’t work.
So we assume that Beatrice v1 and v2 die. However, there is still someone running around calling themselves Beatrice. I have claimed that it is Sayo and I shall explain soon why I say Sayo rather than Shannon (though most of you will already know why). However, I think that Sayo is, in fact, someone who was alive at the time of Beatrice v2’s death. Beyond that, she witnessed what happened to Beatrice v2 and has a familial connection to the Ushiromiyas. I think that Sayo was the child of Beatrice v2. Now, these suspicions are mostly just that. One could also claim that she was simply an orphan from the Fukuin House. Why not both? If my theory is correct she would be an orphan in some ways (I’m not sure who the father would be. The primary candidates now are Kinzo, Rudolf and Krauss. Ew to all of these). If Kinzo wanted to keep a closer eye on her, as we might expect with what happened to Beatrice v2, it would make sense that he would put her into the Fukuin House, bribe the orphanage with a bunch of money to keep quiet, and then hire Sayo to be a servant in the mansion where he could keep a sharper eye out. This is the section that I’m not terribly confidant about but seems to not have a whole lot of evidence about either. Perhaps I’ll find something as I finish my reread. We shall see.
Q. Why Sayo?
A. I think that Sayo is both Kanon and Shannon. Now, I claimed this a long time ago without a whole lot of evidence to back it up. Now I think I have more to go on. First of all Battler never sees Kanon and Shannon in the same room together in a scene that isn’t Meta. Kanon and Shannon are seen in many scenes together but, taking Battler’s perspective to be true (with the caveat that he might be drunk/dreaming a la Episode 2) we can’t say that they are ever definitively shown to be seperate entities. THIS IS VERY STRANGE. Look, even if you don’t take the assumption about Battler’s perspective to be true, you have to admit that the fact that Battler never sees them together is odd.
There are more pieces. Kanon very clearly seems to be the culprit of episode 1 (I don’t want to go into great detail here but I believe that it should be clear Kanon could have faked his death in episode 1 since we never actually see a corpse). However, we know that part of the reason that people die on Rokkenjima is because of Battler’s sin. Now, granted that there might be some way Battler’s actions could have caused Kanon to kill people it would seem like, for the most part, if the sin was to cause something like this to happen it would have to be more direct than simply ‘Battler hurt someone Kanon cares about’. It could be the case, but I feel like something like that wouldn’t quite be cause for murder. Kanon (if we were to assume they are different) wouldn’t have reason to murder, and yet it seems like he does (at least in episode 1, though we can also claim it for 2 & 3. Episode 4 is a mess and just about anyone could have committed the crimes so we won’t really get any helpful information off of it in terms of culprits on the island). Shannon does remember Battler very clearly and would remember his sin but, if we assume they are separate, dies too early to perform the murders. But, if we assume that they are the same person then things match together much better.
Furthermore, there are many instances where we are introduced to the idea of multiple personalities or personas. As early as episode 1 we see Battler, George, and Jessica discuss Maria’s personalities. Episode 2 has Jessica talk to Kanon about having different personas in different settings. Episode 3 has Battler specifically ask EVA-Beatrice about the possibility of Jessica having different personalities. While it is denied that she does it is never asked of anyone else and not denied generally. Added on to that it would seem like EVA-Beatrice, by having to deny that, confirms that, if a different personality were involved it would circumvent reds. Therefore we know that, when it keeps being claimed that Kanon is dead, it may simply mean that the personality Kanon is dead. This interpretation of the reds is, from our reasoning, valid.
Lastly, as a fun little bonus, Kanon and Shannon apparently get the same mark on their hand in episode 2. Of course, we could just put that down to the scene being magical. However, it does indicate even more strongly that these two characters may, in fact, be the same person.
Q. So What even happened on Rokkenjima
A. Long story short: we don’t know. It seems like Beatrice (Sayo) was the actual author of episodes 1 and 2. It seems clear that neither of these episodes describe what really happened on the island because we know that Eva survives. Episode 3 seems to be closer to the truth though I’m not sure we can really say that Episode 3 really happened either. Episode 4 is similar to Episodes 1 and 2. I’m not sure if we can say that 4 is some as-of-yet undiscovered message in a bottle but the possibility exists and I don’t really have evidence for or against. I guess we could suggest that the writing ‘style’ of 4 is different so could have a different author but that might be a stretch.
Somwhat related to this. It seems likely to me that Eva would have left behind her own record of what happened on Rokkenjima. If this were the case I suspect that Ange would have seen it when she went to investigate Rokkenjima at the end of Episode 4. This might also be an explanation of Eva appearing in that same scene.
However, one thing I think we can say about what definitely happened on Rokkenjima is that there was an explosion. I’m just going to quote what I wrote before
And that basically is still my reasoning. It makes sense and also explains the shrine disappearing (it was a test of the explosive). It also makes sense of the letter from Beatrice in episode 1 where she says that there will be ‘no draw’. This will also feed into my explanation of the next question.
Q. What is the motive of the culprit?
A. Sayo’s true motive is just what she says in the letter bottles at the end of episode 1. She wants people to come along and find the truth. She wants people to understand what it was that happened on Rokkenjima. However, it’s not that she wants people to find out what happened on just October 4-5. She wants people to find the whole truth. She wants people to be like Ange and thoroughly explore everything and find out her whole backstory, which is clearly tragic. To that end she has included these letter bottles to make sure that people had some clues as to her backstory. I don’t think that Sayo had any intention of surviving the events of Rokkenjima and hence the explosion. The explosion served as punishment on the family that discarded her. However, if they solved the riddle and found out the truth, she would forgive them and they would be able to stop the explosion from happening. This seems like a likely interpretation.
Q. If all this is true, who were the accomplices, if any?
A. My theory requires Hideyoshi, Eva, Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo to be accomplices. Some are more involved than others and I think they had varying levels of conspiracy with Sayo. Hideyoshi merely lies about Shannon’s death in episode 1. It would seem like he would do this because Sayo has acquired a vast sum of money and has told Hideyoshi that she will give it to him if he does this for her. It seems like Hideyoshi could be acting alone apart from Eva but it would be doubtful just given their relationship. This would also explain how the second twilight happens: Eva and Hideyoshi willingly let Sayo into the room.
Nanjo, Genji and Kumasawa are most likely aware of Sayo’s true nature (her many personas) and keep quite about it. Nanjo declares death when people really aren’t dead etc. I also think Nanjo would have been the one to place the letter in the study in episode 1. They cooperate with Sayo because, at least for Kumasawa and Nanjo there could be a mixture of blackmail and bribing. They are both old and money was promised to their families if they cooperate. They see this as a better option for helping their families so they go along. Genji probably would do all this simply out of a sense of loyalty. After all, it is likely that the Beatrice line of the family is actually the ‘true’ line and so Sayo would really be the Head if Kinzo is dead.
Q. So what is Battler’s sin?
A. Battler betrayed Sayo. It is likely that Beatrice’s red about never breaking a promise is very pertinent here. Battler, Shannon remembers, promised to come back riding a white horse etc. However, Battler completely forgets about Sayo and Sayo feels abandoned and betrayed. It may even be that Battler knew about Sayo’s true nature or her true lineage. Sayo may have even shown him Kuwadorian (after all, we are told that the cousins, Shannon included went into the woods and got lost). To forget about her after all this time could be seen as a vast betrayal by someone who is hoping to end her endless days on the island.
This also fits thematically. In Dante’s Inferno we see the lowest level of hell reserved for the traitors and betrayers. It would make sense that Battler, who’s sin seems to be the greatest of all the relatives to merit these events, would fit into this catagory.
I’ve undoubtedly missed some important aspect of my theory. I will try and make another, more in depth post with screenshots and all at some later date. I won’t be able to join the launch party but I hope people have fun. We shall see soon if my predictions are born out.
Hey Seraph, I have a suggestion: Even if we should end up believing the other person’s theory more, let’s try to argue for our own theory as long as possible.
I liked this episode. Nowhere near as much as episode three, but moreso than episode two. It’s incredibly long, but I can forgive Ryukishi (and only Ryukishi) for this, since he can fill the screen with good characters. I think it’s a great way to end the first four episodes.
Going into this, I thought Ange was going to shove Battler aside and become the main protagonist. After all that build up and backstory, though, that’s seemingly wrong, as she becomes something for Battler to fight for. We go into heavy topics such as biasing our views toward people based on our personal opinions, and what the meaning of “truth” really is. Something I doubt I’ll find an answer to in Umineko. 
So, when Ange referred to herself as Gretel, alarm bells went off in my head. In the story of Hansel and Gretel, the twins kill a witch and return home to find that their mother, who abandoned them in the forest, has died, implying a dark mirror between the two. That, and the assumption that Battler is not the Battler born from Asumu, leads to me to wonder if perhaps Beatrice is his mother. She reportedly disappeared/died in Kuwadorian in 1967, which lines up well with a nine-month pregnancy and eighteen years of Battler’s life. I don’t recall if it’s ever stated in red that Battler is Rudolf’s son; he may be Kinzo’s. With the similarities between the two, it’s entirely possible, and since I doubt the red it’s even more so.
The constellation Centaurus represents the centaurs of Ancient Greece, half-horse half-men beings that were believed to be caught between two natures, embodying savagery and civility. This reminds me of the witches, who can change moods at the drop of a hat and are very fickle, Lambdadelta and Beatrice especially. Bernkastel, however, reminds me of Chiron, who was called the wisest and justest of all centaurs, probably due to his different parentage to the others. He was a teacher, and a mentor to the hero Achilles, and while Bernkastel doesn’t necessarily teach Battler anything she did bring in Ange who did. Maybe Bernkastel will follow the footsteps of Chiron, and be brought to the brink of whatever the witches’ closest association with death is by Lambdadelta, perhaps by whatever magical sort of poison Kinzo keeps drinking?
Tyltyl and Mytyl search for happiness in the play The Blue Bird. While admiring the beauty that money can buy, the story reaffirms the virtues of finding joy, happiness, and love in the simpler things of life, like family. This in turn spreads to others, and makes the world brighter each time. It’s ironic that the color blue was used to represent happiness in that play, while perhaps gold represents it in Umineko? If we acknowledge that magic = love, then maybe Beatrice’s overuse of gold only proves to me how rare and valuable it is to humans. I back this up with Kanon and Shannon finding their humanity through love.
I really loved Maria in this chapter. Despite the neglect and abuse she receives from Rosa, her initially optimistic outlook on life is enough to inspire and change Ange. I always love it when characters find the value in the world around them, and choose to fight for a better future.
Really, despite the odd pacing of Ange’s and Maria’s subplots, they were really the seasoning this chapter needed. Watching Ange find solace with Maria and the Stakes as they become friends and seeing the parallels between the two cousins was nice. I only pray they don’t have to suffer anymore. I remember I cried when Rosa destroyed Sakutarou, and cried again when appeared in the Golden Land.
Finally, I really liked the action in this chapter. Even figuring that Jessica and George would lose to Ronove and Gaap, and that Krauss and co. would die, seeing the resolve of these characters yet again choosing to defy the fates presented to them by these otherworldly and irrational beings just warms my heart. This is compounded in the Tea Party, which is obviously quite the highlight. I’m really excited to see what comes next.
Bravo to your whole post, Seraphitic, but there is still something you have not explained in your theory, and that is, assuming your theory is correct, why do you think this, uh, Sayo has so many personalities? Do you think it is mere mental illness or something else?
Personally I think that it’s something of a coping mechanism. By separating her personalities she’s able to suppress painful memories because those are ‘someone else’s memories’. If she is Shannon or Kanon then she doesn’t have to deal with Sayo’s memories or problems. It kinda ties in with what I think about magic but that’s a different discussion. Basically, I just wanted to get things that might be a little more factual and the why is a little bit more conjecture. That’s mostly why I didn’t say anything about it.
Hmm, a rather good reason, but well, we’ll see whether it will be proved or disproved, after you’ve finished Chiru.
Ah, it completely flew over my head back then that he could say “From Ushiromiya” in red.
