Umineko Episode 6 Spoiler-Free General

[Aspirety]

Spoiler-free general discussion topic for Episode 6: Dawn of the Golden Witch of Umineko When They Cry. Episode 6 refers to volumes 13-15 of the manga, and was not adapted by the anime series.

In the interests of protecting those who are reading Umineko for the first time, any references to events that happen later in the story are strictly forbidden. We take spoilers very seriously, and ignoring this rule could potentially result in a ban.

While this topic will serve as a general hub for discussion of the Episode, if a conversation ends up flowing in a certain direction (eg. You start talking about the series as a whole rather than this particular Episode), don’t be afraid to continue it in your own topic! Keep the “reply as linked topic” button beside each post in mind.

What would you rate this Episode?

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[Aspirety]

Episode 6 is a very unique episode for the series. With Erika around it still retains some of the ‘gameyness’, but it’s a very different kind of game with Battler as the game master. In fact, if Erika hadn’t interfered, nobody would’ve had to die! This is a unique kind of gameboard where the challenger’s objective is to ruin the gameboard itself, rather than defeat their opponent in a fair battle. It’s very cruel really.

But what sets this one apart even more, is that the entire episode was constructed to communicate a message; that Battler fully understands Beatrice’s story. Without spoiling what, everything in this Episode hints toward a hidden truth that is central to the story. Without that truth, a lot of this episode won’t make any sense, so it serves as good confirmation for those who have reached the truth, but also incentive and hints to seek out that truth for those who have not. The final piece in Beatrice’s mystery. If this is your first time reading, feel free to speculate what that might be. But for those who have finished Umineko or have been told the answer, please don’t spell it out just yet. I’d love to see someone here reach the truth on their own.

Also, the way we go back to Ange and meet Featherine adds a lot to shake up the metaphysics of Umineko. Here I was convinced that the world of 1998 was fixed, but this section appears to contradict that, maybe? It’s been a while

One of the interesting questions that came up when this Episode was first translated was: how incompetent was Battler really? I’ve heard many argue that he intentionally feel into Erika’s trap in order to communicate something to the Chick Beatrice and resurrect his lover, or was it just a coincidence? What do you think?

[ctom42]

One of the interesting questions that came up when this Episode was first translated was: how incompetent was Battler really? I’ve heard many argue that he intentionally feel into Erika’s trap in order to communicate something to the Chick Beatrice and resurrect his lover, or was it just a coincidence? What do you think?

I think it’s not even really debatable that he did it on purpose. Well everything in Umineko is debatable to an extent, but if we are to believe what were are told about how pieces work then it means it must have happened on purpose.

After Battler fell into the logic error and was trapped the game was supposed to end. The pieces cannot move without instructions from the GM or their player after all. However, much to the surprise of Bern, Erika, and Dlanor the game continued. The duel of the lovers raged on, and at the end Kanon lost, sacrificed himself to free Battler, and helped Chick Beato regain Sayo’s memories.

None of that should be possible with Battler trapped away and unaware of the solution. Hell, even Erika re-killing people and using the duct tape without his knowledge should have been impossible. But that’s assuming Battler really was trapped. However if it was all his plan to ressurect Beatrice then it makes sense. The pieces are all still moving according to his plan because it was never derailed. I mean it is really odd that Battler gave Erika retroactive duct tape to begin with.

The board Battler created had the purpose of proving he knew the truth. In that sense episode 6 was full of tons of extra hints about Sayo’s true nature. Because of that it also served as the perfect board for Chick Beato to become the Beato battler knew, or at least something close. Battler’s logic error both put him in a state where he needed a competent Beato to rescue him and forced Beato to think about the closed rooms. She had to come up with the answer which required knowledge of her true form.

Even if you ignore the impossible movements of the pieces, Battlers motivation for setting it up, and his lack of knowledge of Erika’s movements, there is still one more piece that doesn’t fit with Battler being trapped for real. That’s the solution that Beato came up with. Battler already understood the truth, thus it was an answer he could easily reach. The entire game was practically shouting the answer to the closet trick, it couldn’t have been set up without Battler being aware such a possibility existed. He was in that room because he chose to be.

[Karifean]

Episode 6 is a difficult one. As a whole I love it a lot, but at times it can be quite frustrating. Particularly the first half, almost everything before the Ushiromiya Kyrie cannot save Battler scene. The plot of Battler’s scenario, when taken at face value, really isn’t all that interesting and takes a long time to get through. There are some very interesting parts, such as the bits with Hachijo and Ange, or Dlanor and Erika (that scene with just the two of them made me appreciate both of them that much more), but for the most part it just kinda happened.

That being said, everything past that line is amazing. I felt so disgusted by Erika when she revealed she deliberately killed all of the fake victims just to win the game. That’s also when the love trials finally get somewhere and a lot of hints are dropped. The final confrontation between Beato and Erika is my favorite chapter in all of Umineko, with the final red truth statement being the sweet, sweet icing on the cake.

I’m not too big a fan of the whole Golden Land business myself, but it wasn’t overbearing. And the ??? scene was great and did a good job setting up expectations for Episode 7.

Even if you ignore the impossible movements of the pieces, Battlers motivation for setting it up, and his lack of knowledge of Erika’s movements, there is still one more piece that doesn’t fit with Battler being trapped for real. That’s the solution that Beato came up with. Battler already understood the truth, thus it was an answer he could easily reach.

I agree. Given that Battler understands the truth, it should have been the simplest thing in the world for him to think of the very same trick Beato came up with. While that doesn’t confirm that he plotted to get himself caught from the beginning, it does at least heavily imply that he intentionally stayed in the locked room, waiting for Beato to return by her own strength.

The episode does imply early on that Battler may make a huge gamble of his own to resurrect Beato so this theory fits right in with that little bit of foreshadowing.

[cj_iwakura]

That scene with the trap Battler falls into was the most gut-wrenching in the series. Danganronpa-level despair.

[Funyarinpa]

That scene with the trap Battler falls into was the most gut-wrenching in the series. Danganronpa-level despair.

Agreed. Also this probably means that I completely misinterpreted Umineko’s message which would not surprise me since I’m utterly shit at interpreting anything, but the USHIROMIYA KYRIE CANNOT SAVE BATTLER moment is the most memorable moment in Umineko for me. Blew my mind (and heart) right off.

[Exalt]

So, there’s a lot to talk about with this one, isn’t there?

Without love, it cannot be seen.

And certainly, love is a focus of this episode.

The game diverges from Beatrice’s idea further than than even the previous one: Erika, distraught after her loss in the last episode and with Bern looming overhead, sets out to destroy Battler’s game entirely.

Personally, I found the setup to Battler’s game quite interesting, and it’s a shame this one couldn’t have been played out properly, though some fraction of it seems to be me not understanding how the mystery and fantasy narratives mesh, if discussion I had with @Karifean is accurate. Every murder is committed by someone different: Eva’s body is teleported wholesale, even.

Jessica’s murder* of Kyrie was a very interesting scene I thought, just with what was going on, and the heat punch was sure something. It would seem the room was not scorched in reality, which is kind of a shame in the sense that I’d have liked to see that one argued over. This scene also made me think “Okay, I can see how a fighting game came out of this.”

The twofold purpose of the murders was also an interesting touch. Thanks Erika for ruining all of this.

We also get some information out of Rosa and Kyrie on their relationships, which was neat, although Kyrie’s was kind of messed up, and I was hoping Maria’s father would be a bit more of a good guy. And Eva tells George to get back in her womb. Battler kills* his piece version, which was interesting.

Oh yeah, if you’re an Erika fan, this one may be mostly unpleasant for you.

So, Erika and Bernkastel do not employ the detective’s authority on this one, seeking to achieve a victory that weighs more than their previous loss. Battler also prevents Erika from making the seals that dogged him last time.

Battler, general good guy that he is (though his behavior in the cookie scene, if somewhat understandable given what’s going on, was not well-received by me. I agreed with Kumasawa.) took pity on her after seeing her upset, and let her have “three rooms worth” of seals. And yeah, it was super a trick. Thanks Erika.

Oh yeah, speaking of Erika, this is about the dumbest opinion I’ve ever seen:

It’s not even considered a romance.

Erika also fights a nine-year old. And only mostly wins, with facts withheld. Nice.

Erika does have a somewhat more humanizing scene with Dlanor, and about how Erika was cheated on by a past boyfriend. But erika still insults Dlanor anyway.

It’s not long after the packing tape discussion that I lament the fact that I had already heard the “Shannon = Kanon” and “Shannon = Beatrice” theories.

And now, to get into the meat of the episode: the closed room fight. This scene was incredibly tense, just everything that happened until Lambda’s verdict.

And then we found out that Erika did what I expected of her at one point in the previous episode: The detective proclamation was withheld so that Erika could become the culprit, reversing Battler’s closed room on him.

What follows is a bit painful. You know what all I mean.

Shannon and Kanon’s dialogue in their duel is worth noting, I think, and the duel itself was more interesting than I’d have expected. And it sets up

The wedding. Oh, this whole final act is just something. I don’t think I can say a whole lot that you haven’t understood already, if you feel similarly. Beatrice vs Erika was something we needed to see, and a fair amount of the cast gets good moments throughout.

I was surprised that Battler and Beatrice straight up got married though. Beatrice calls Battler her husband, wow.

The solution to the closed room did puzzle me somewhat, which reduced it a bit for me, but not very much.

I want to read parts of this chapter again already, just wow.

Earlier I mentioned that I lamented hearing certain fan theories. This is because those seem rather strong to me by this point, albeit they aren’t without questions.

So, I haven’t mentioned the Ange/Featherine narrative yet. In general I would prefer if someone else try to get the ball rolling on that one.

The latter tea party, though. We see a more…hellish side to Featherine here. There’s so much creepiness going on with her interactions with Bern and it goes miles to set her up. I can just imagine her visage twisting into a monster with claws and fangs…

She, like some readers at this point, simply want the answers. A shame, for all of her talk earlier about readers who don’t think and all, she doesn’t seem open to considering what the next one could offer. I’m very curious as to where her character goes.

Well, whenever you all get here, I hope this will help to facilitate discussion.

[mimsy]

So this episode all but confirms that Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice share a body, right? They’re ‘furniture’ because none of them have a complete soul, and none of them can love someone with their whole self.

It was fun watching the game unfold, even after discussing the Kanon=Shannon theory at length. It made me realize that Kanon=Shannon wasn’t quite the right way to put it. Kanon, Shannon, and Beatrice are characters played by Sayo. I can’t help but remember Lambdadelta remarking during a tea party that ‘Beatrice’ is a good actress. Sayo must be a good actress, to play so many parts!

But it seems like she feels all her roles, too. It isn’t just a disguise. She truly wants to find happiness with George as Shannon, and with Jessica as Kanon. Each represents a life she could live, a person she could be. But choosing one would mean killing the other – which is the meaning of ‘Kanon is dead’ and ‘Shannon is dead.’ In the very first episode, Shannon dies and lives on as Kanon, until Kanon dies, too, and there’s only Sayo left to carry out the murders.

It’s a strangely elegant solution. After all the back and forth about whether the culprit was ‘one of the 18’ or ‘Person X,’ it’s ‘Person X and one of the 18.’ To put it another way, Person X ‘Sayo’ was hidden behind the names of Kanon and Shannon.

I also think it’s interesting that Battler constructed a gameboard to show he understood Beatrice’s heart, and it was a game where nobody had to die.

(BTW Erika is terrifying. The cold, cruel logic of her ‘perfect autopsy’ stunned me, as did the realization that this was why she couldn’t use the detective’s privilege anymore. One of the scariest moments in the entire game for me.)

[Jokrono]

Welp.

[mimsy]

Ooh yes, let’s talk about this confirmation that the episodes 1-2 and episodes 3-4 were written by different authors. You were right to notice a difference in the writing style! What are the implications we can glean from this?

One of the immediate, saddest implications that come to mind for me is … Beatrice is a much more stereotypical villain in episodes 1-2. She does gain depth in episode 2, but she’s much more sympathetic in 3-5, and an innocent in 6. Episodes 1-2 were written from the perspective of Sayo who hates herself and wants to die, taking the family with her. The other episodes are written from the perspective of someone who knows the truth, understands Beatrice and the Sayo behind Beatrice, and has a more complex and gentle perspective of her.

In other words, I’m still holding out hope that maybe Battler is writing some of forgeries … or not-Battler, Battler-with-amnesia, Battler-trying-to-remember-who-he-is. It puts a new spin on the end of episode 4 where he fell into nothingness because he didn’t know who he was anymore.

(I’ve also completely jumped off the ‘Beatrice is Battler’s mother!’ theory and embraced the ship. I mean, if Sayo is descended from Kinzo and Beatrice I, it’s still mostly incest, but it’s cute incest.)

[SleepingPliskin]

I mean, yeah she’s pretty great lol. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts about her.

[VyseGolbez]

This time I think I’ll start with the record of red truths. I’ll also include the golden truth. Furthermore, I will try to keep repititions to a minimum, as well as order them by topic. Stuff in brackets is needed context that isn’t in the original red truth itself but in the white text context (mostly who pronouns are referring to).

The candy

[color=red]
This is a story of something that really happened.
There were no tricks like that. It was just an ordinary table and an ordinary cup.
Your (Maria’s) so-called candy magic is nothing more than a sleight of hand. Just a sleight of hand that the fake witch calling herself Beatrice or whatever claimed was magic.
[/color][color=gold]
You (Little Sister Beato) used magic to create a golden flower petal inside an overturned cup. It was a splendid bit of magic.
[/color]

The six closed rooms

[color=red]
The rooms with the six people in them are all closed rooms.
The definition of a closed room implies that it is impossible to construct from the outside.
The definition of a closed room implies that all forms of interference that pass between the inside and outside of the room are prevented.
At the time of the deconstruction of the closed rooms, none existed within the rooms except the victims (Natsuhi, Eva, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, Battler)
After the deconstruction of the closed rooms, then excluding me (Erika), only Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda entered the rooms.
Krauss, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Gohda were not involved in the murders of Natsuhi, Eva, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, and Battler.
The victims did not die by any method other than homicide.
[/color]

Battler's closed room

[color=red]
The six first twilight victims are located at the places where they were discovered. Natsuhi is in her room, Eva is in the VIP room, Kyrie is in Krauss’s study, Rosa and Maria are in the parlor, and you are in the guest room.
Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are in the next room over.
Everyone else is in the cousin room.
The complete sealing of both the cousin room and the next room over has been guaranteed.
We have confirmed that the seals to the guest room are undamaged. Since the time Lady Erika confirmed Battler’s presence, this closed room has been preserved.
Ushiromiya Battler is not on the bed.
No hidden places that are impossible for Erika-san to find exist inside the guest room.
Except for one location, there is no one to be seen in the bedroom.
No one was seen in the bathroom.
Ushiromiya Battler does not exist within the guest room. There are no exceptions, including the closet.
At that time (after entering the room), I immediately closed the door, reset the chain, and sealed this room.
Erika repaired the chain lock.
The lock caused by the chain is intact.
Ushiromiya Kyrie cannot save Battler.
Ushiromiya Natsuhi cannot save Battler.
Ushiromiya Eva cannot save Battler.
Rosa and Maria cannot save him either.
I re-killed all of them.
Know that neither (the door seals of the cousin room and the next room over) is broken.
The window seals (of the cousin room) were also intact. Of course, this is at the time of the logic error.
The one who rescued Battler was, without a doubt, Kanon.
Battler and Kanon are different people.
At the time the next room over was sealed, Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo were in it. And, the number of people in the next room over was five. No one existed there except for those to whom those five names refer. All people can only go by their own names.
At the time Battler was rescued, only Kanon entered the guest room.
From the time you entered the room to the time of the logic error, you, Battler, and Kanon were the only ones who went in or out of the guest room.
It refers to three people: you, Battler, and Kanon.
Three people - in other words, three bodies - went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left.
I’ll define ‘rescuer’ to mean any person who reset the chain lock after Battler unset it. This definition applies whether said person intended to rescue Battler or not.
Going in or out refers to when someone crosses the boundary betweenthe guest room and the area outside it.
By the guestroom, we’re referring to the entirety of the bedroom, the bathroom, and the closet.
Kanon does not exist inside the bedroom.
Kanon does not exist in the guest room. Of course, this includes all parts of the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom.
[/color]

Beatrice

[color=red]
That Beatrice will never revive again.
I (Younger Sister Beatrice) was born for father’s (Battler’s) sake.
[/color]

Misc.

[color=red]
I (Lambdadelta) swear that I am impartial in my judgments.
That makes 17 humans.
[/color]

---

Now let me start actually talking about the episode. First, I’d like to say that [color=red]I abandoned the ‘Shannon and Kanon are two different people’ theory pretty early on.[/color] The two being the same person is of course the solution to Battler’s closed room, [color=blue]by abandoning the name Kanon and going by Shannon from then on, Kanon was able to disappear from the room.[/color] But also early on, it was necessary for them to be the same person as otherwise the whole love battle wouldn’t have made sense. And really, this episode pretty much revealed that those two are also Beatrice.

Next up, I’d like to talk about the golden truth. Look back at the candy truths, maybe you can already realize what the golden truth is from that. If not, I’ll do the Ryukishi thing and give three more examples concluded with what I think the golden truth is.

Example 1

[color=gold]I once broke a girl’s heart by abiding to the rules too much.[/color]

Example 2

There is a great magic in our world that a lot of people witness on a frequent basis. And if you ask any of them what happened, they’ll tell you the following:
[color=gold]Today bread turned into flesh and wine turned into blood.[/color]

Example 3

When Bob was born, the doctor and his parents saw that [color=red]he is a boy.[/color] However, Bob soon realized that [color=gold]he is, in fact, a girl.[/color]

Solution

So I think that golden truth is personal truth. In that sense, it is actually closer to blue truth thatn it is to red truth. As we have seen in this episode and some of my examples, you can actually say stuff with the golden truth that you couldn’t say with the red. However, it is something that is still true for the one who says it. That person believes in that truth. That point is also where it is different from blue truth. You can make many theories with the blue without having to actually believe them. You can’t do that with the gold.

So about the discussion of logic errors and all that, I think it’s actually pointless. Earlier episodes have already shown us that you physically can’t speak reds that are untrue. That would basically be the case if a red would create a logic error. However, the Gamemaster has the responsibility to know the solution to the riddles he poses. That is what all the talk about failed Gamemasters actually refers to if you ask me.

---

Now for the final segment of my post, I’d like to talk about the meta. This episode revealed that the episodes actually exist in universe, with Legend and Turn being written by the original Beatrice and the other four being written by Hachijo. Furthermore, it is strongly hinted that at least some parts of the meta are part of the in-universe tales. Now I am claiming that actually everything is part of the in-universe tales. Ange’s scenes have to be part of the tales as those are the main reason the fourth episode is called ‘Alliance’, and the discussion between Hachijo and Ange at the end of this episode reveals that the talks between Ange and Featherine were also a part of the in universe episode 6. I however am simply going one step further in saying that even the scenes between Ange and Hachijo are another layer of the in universe forgery that is Dawn of the Golden Witch. It is possible that some of that was based on a real conversation between Ange and Hachijo, but I actually kinda doubt it, what with Ange saying in the end she’ll most likely forget her visit there and that the passing of time was very weird. Like seriously, you physically can’t read all of the stuff that has to be a part of in universe ep 6 in 2 to 3 hours. Furthermore, as the term everything implies, I think the Tea Parties and Ura Tea Parties are part of the message bottles as well, though I am unsure if the first Tea Party is a part of the first or the second message bottle.

Now going with this interpretation, I want to look at one question I hear a lot of veterans are unsure of, and that is whether Beato was in any real danger back in episode 3. And well, it depends on the layer you are on. On the game board, I’d say she certainly was in danger, however once you go to the plane that Hachijo exists on, Beato is perfectly safe, since she, as the author, has already decided whether she is going to survive or not. For her, even the players of the game are just more pieces.

And then there’s another thing that I can claim with this theory. I’ll actually use blue for this. [color=blue]We know almost nothing of the reality of the world of Umineko. The only thing we can be certain of is that a great catastrophe happened on Rokkenjima and that Eva was the sole survivor. Furthermore, Ange most likely really did die in 1998, as otherwise Hachijo, or rather the true author as that doesn’t even have to be Hachijo, would be less credible. With this interpretation, it could very well be that Eva did not kill anyone. What is however also possible is that the author misinterpreted the first two tales and that the person they think to be the culprit actually isn’t the culprit.[/color]

[Jokrono]

So, because of having to record it, I’m still only about half way through the episode. The last thing I saw was George’s fight with EVA-Beatrice (shoutout to Drew Carey and Drew Carey for being the best).

But the appearance of Tohya is definitely something I’ve spent hours thinking over. If anything I’m struggling to remember the sequence of events on the gameboard because I’m spending so much time on this.

It is so awesome to have my claim that there was a different author for episodes 3 onward confirmed. As I said on the Episode 5 thread, it’s one of those things that I felt was staring me in the face as I go back through and edit it (especially now that I’m editing episode 3, where this change occurs). I’m sure there will be more detail later on in episode 6 to work this theory off, but I’m incredibly confident at this point that everything in episodes 1-5 was written down, including the tea parties and Ange’s story, especially after the incredible line ‘my memory of the future is hazy’.

My initial reaction to Tohya being the author, rather than Battler, was pretty devestating, but I very quickly realised that this is ridiculous. A few notes on that;

1. Why would Ryukishi mention the male double appearing at the convention, the alternate identity, and the assistant, if they weren’t relevant? Sure, it could be chalked down to being part of establishing the mystique of Featherine, but there’s something particularly deliberate and specific about those mentions which is very different to how the pasts of Bernkastel and Lambdadelta are explored.
2. The witch of ‘theatregoing’, ‘spectating’? Hardly sounds like an author to me. There are many ways that this could be explained too, but once again, it’s odd.
3. Why would someone not directly connected to the incident be writing about it?
4. Every ‘magic’ scene we’ve been shown thus far seems to at least have some allusion to the truth of the moment. It’s hard to tell with the few appearances I’ve seen thus far, but what motive is there for Tohya to write herself as ‘hiding’ her identity as the witch? What difference would it have made to appear first as the witch, or to not appear as the witch at all?

So basically; I still think Battler is the author, at least of Episodes 3 and 4. I’m growing suspicious that Tohya may actually be the author for episodes 5 and 6, thus the appearances of Erika; the more traditional mystery detective from the more traditional mystery author. I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say this for sure, but there definitely enough foreshadowing to justify it, if it is the case.

So I have two courses of action at the moment; either I just push forwards with Battler as the author, or I try reason out why Tohya may actually have written all of episodes 3-6. Or I do both.

I think I plan to continue my claim that Battler is the author (because it’s harder to do but I also think it makes more sense), but I will also explore the motive of Tohya, to try and figure out what obscure reason she would have for writing any of this.

So much like last time, I’m going to run and hide for a bit, and I’ll see you all with a few thousand words in a week or so.

[Thehoennhippo]

So that was Dawn of the Golden Witch huh, that was a ride. I’m still trying to figure out what I think of most of this episode but a couple of things definitely stood out to me.

I don’t know if I’m correct or not, but I noticed that the start felt like Battler was writing a story which allowed for his family to grow and let out things. The stuff with the lovers, or the scene with Kyrie I felt like this was a story Battler was writing for his family in some way. Now how much was that I’m not entirely sure because the metaphysics of Umineko was quite confusing to me this episode and I’ve kind of given up trying to understand them cause I’m not sure that’s the point. Like the parts with Ange and Featherine/Tohya I was confused by the choice to have two separate conversations happening through the same Episode, though I was fine with it by the end. Also of note was the part where Beato interacted with them, while they were reading the story about the game board. But as I said, I’m not entirely sure that matters

I also found myself liking Lambdadelta a lot more this episode. I liked her before, but the scene where she talked to Battler before he was locked in the room blew me away. Even before that I found myself noticing that she bounces of both Bern and Battler, great chemistry all around. The backstory of both Bern and Lambda were interesting to me, it didn’t exactly humanize them, since they aren’t human, but they definitely felt more real to me. I really liked that.

The end of this episode felt like a conclusion of the story to me, so I’m pretty interested to see what happens with Episodes 7 and 8. I assume it’ll be explaining, or at least hinting at the truth. I’m looking forward to getting a better sense of what I’m supposed to take away from Umineko. I’ve learned a lot from Umineko, about the mystery genre, and about the relationship between the author and the reader. Looking forward to reading more.

[VyseGolbez]

First of here’s this episode’s OST.

---

@Thehoennhippo

metaphysics of Umineko

I already touched quite a bit on this in my previous post, but let’s give a detailed explanation of how I think the meta works and in how many layers I separate it.

Layer 0: The Gameboard

This is the gameboard itself, where the characters, or rather pieces I guess, interact with each other, where murders are happening, and where magic itself does not happen.

Layer 1: The Magic Characters on the Gameboard

This is the layer on which Beatrice as a piece acts. Part of this is for example the big magic battle between Beato and Virgilia in ep 3, or when Beato discusses how she can protect Natsuhi in ep 5. I also group all the magic scenes that have humans in them that happen on the gameboard into this. Furthermore, Erika’s talks with Dlanor on the gameboard are part of this layer.

Layer 2: The Golden Land

This is the layer that Battler and Beato play the gameboard on. It was really only shown in ep 5 that the players basically act on the same layer as the golden land exists, so this is why I call this layer this way. As hinted by the name, the scenes that are said to happen in the golden land are in this layer. One might argue that Purgatorio is slightly below the Golden Land, but there’s not much interaction between the two, so I feel that would overcomplicate things.

Layer 3: Ange's Future

This only describes the future we see in episode 4. This episode’s Ange scenes get their own layer. Maria’s past and Ange’s past from the perspective of this layer are technically sublayers of this one, but as they don’t interact with any other layer, it’s easier to have all of that together in one group.

Layer 4: Featherine's Library

This is the layer of Ange reading this episode as Featherine’s miko. This layer is also entered later on by Beato Younger, and this is I think the main reason we got a separation between Hachiko and Featherine. I think it was supposed to be possible that the next layer I’m going to introduce could be viewed as “Reality”. I already said that I don’t, but the possibility is there.

Layer 5: Hachiko's Place

I don’t have a better name for this, sadly, but this is the layer all the talks between Ange and Hachiko take place in, as well as the phone call from Amakusa at the end. It is possible to view this layer as reality, as the only interaction this layer has with a different one is the fourth one, and it is possible that Hachiko started the message bottle knowing Ange would read it. So for some this layer is the one I’m going to introduce next.

Layer X: The Reality

This is the topmost layer, hence the X. Just in case more layers are introduced later. We have actually not seen a single scene taking place in this layer, if my theory is correct. This is also the superlayer all others exist in. As all other layers could be summarized to be in the superlayer “The story the message bottles tell”, moving between all other layers is always possible, and the reason why the meta often seems so complicated. The laws at which travel between them is possible seem to be confusing thanks to that. But once we view everything as a story in-universe, it’s easier to see why so much layer-jumping is possible for characters.

[Aspirety]

Don’t we need a Layer XX, the world in which we and Ryukishi reside?

Not bad, but I feel describing Hachiko’s place as reality doesn’t sit right. From the very beginning it’s portrayed as an impossible fragment, a place which Ange knows she never visited, in which she has memories from Episode 4, and the existence of Featherine is openly revealed before her transformation.

[VyseGolbez]

Well, if one were to argue Hachiko’s place as reality, one would further argue that reading ep 4 screwed with Ange’s memories and her mistaking fiction she read as memories she really had. Remember that I myself don’t believe Hachiko’s place to be reality either.

Also yes, you could call our plane of existence Layer XX.

[Zosonte]

There seems to be a trend in Umineko that the beginnings of each episode are nonsensical and uninteresting to me while the endings are typical Ryukishi masterpieces that can pull me in as a black hole can to light. There also seems to exist a trend that the sixth arc of a When They Cry story elevates its significance and quality within my heart.

I was ensconced in the warmth of Umineko as soon as the shock had settled from seeing Ange again, whom I should have trusted Ryukishi to do more with. Her overarching story was the only reason I didn’t tire of Episode 4. I believe her story will end at Rokkenjima, and it is in her personal arc that the story will end as the mystery surrounding Battler’s origins and discoveries are revealed, especially since Amakusa and Okonogi seem to have ulterior motives.

The gameboard is framed by the “trials” that, while pushing the message of love that Umineko loves so dearly, I think was more a way to spice up the twilights rather than send a message. I didn’t care for any of these segments, as I too pondered why must these people kill each other for their love? We’ve circled this peak before as Shannon and Kanon have refused, in other gameboards, to remain as furniture, so why is it being shown to us as readers yet again? Chick Beatrice lampshades this herself, wondering why these pairs must kill each other, and the answer we receive is that Shannon and Kanon are furniture, and thus are not one complete soul. I think this is meant to illustrate how they lack ‘love’, and past that it is hard to speculate.

It is in this episode that I finally realized just how unnecessary some of Ryukishi’s writing is, at times, like when Battler is trapped in the room and the needlessly gory descriptions continue past their point of shock value. This is something that persists in his both in his past and yet-to-be written works. Can’t say I’m a fan.

So, as a newbie who can barely keep track of what is happening, we are introduced not only to “Chick” Beatrice, but also “Anego” Beatrice, as I shall call her. Obviously, they are but two halves of the same whole, one that seeks love and one that doesn’t. I find it interesting that, throughout this episode, Chick Beatrice morphs her love from the traditional Greek typings, from Storge (family) to Eros (romance), and perhaps at the end she reaches the purest and holiest love of Agape (unconditional). How or why I still don’t know, but I suspect it’s the same golden and marble road Battler walked in the previous episode to become Sorcerer.

After so long of swimming through the black sludge of my muddled and murky brain-waters, I came to realize what drew me to like Umineko in the first place. In a way, this reconstructed my joy of this deconstruction. The mystery, the murders, and solving them. This is where my beaten heart lies, in solving these blasted mysteries. Dlanor flutters away just as my hands seek to grab the answer, and it all the more validates how well Umineko has nurtured my interest in the mystery genre. If I take away nothing else from Umineko, I will at least know that I am not merely a fly that reacts to the rising and falling swords of stories, but a man capable of thought that is so not interested in theorycrafting that I push it to my subconscious and allows the reserve engine through it, so that I may both feel and think at once, while keeping the former foremost!

Truly, this is where Episode 6 shines. Beato, whom I never thought I would miss so dearly, comes back, and plays the knight to Battler’s king. It is a testament that simply because I expected to happen, does not mean I enjoyed it any less. How refreshing and beautiful is the morning sun that caressed the valley of hatred that I felt for Erika, that made me feel so conflicted for her in that duel. That is the goal I seek with every story, to fish out the extremes of sympathy and hatred with each and every character. I wished to lend her a hand in her duel against this overwhelming, ancient force known as the Golden Witch, who is to be feared yet again, who has understood love. Battler x Beato confirmed, truly.

In typical Ryukishi fashion, I witnessed yet another fuse that burned ever so slowly, trickling across what seemed to be the length of the stars in space. The tides of my interest turn as they always do. What answers lie ahead, if any? Do not worry, my friends, for I will never give up. I have and will never stop thinking.

[VyseGolbez]

I think I’ll make one last post here before starting episode 7. And fittingly, I’ll talk a bit about my future expectations. We talked a bit in the episode 5 podcast how there’s probably going to be a character representing Van Dyne’s 20 rules of detective fiction and how Umineko breaks several of them so far. With the Ura Tea Party claiming Bern as the next Gamemaster, this now perfectly sets up the appearance of this character we assume to exist. The reason for that is twofold. One, Bern is presented to us as someone that wants to destroy Beato’s gameboard in the most shameful way possible. So what better way than to introduce a character that has some arbitrary set of rules with which said character can point out how much this story sucks? And the second part is kind of more a “in particular”, as Bern warned that she lacks love, and if you all remember, one of the rules was that love has, for the most part, no place in detective fiction.

Now the other prediction I’m going to make actually only works if the “unconfirmable” theory of “Battler is the author from episode 3 onward” turns out to be correct. However, first off I also have to assume that Battler does not suffer some kind of amnesia, but that he was fully aware of what happened. I basically kept thinking “Why would Battler continue to write these stories?” And the answer I came up with is basically the same reason he made this planned logic error. While for the Battler on the Gameboard Beatrice did make actions he didn’t plan, for the Battler outside everything as the author even that was planned. However, he wants people to figure out the truth. And he wants to create a tradition that the truth isn’t just said, but instead proven by telling a new story. Once someone does that, even the Author-Battler will have succeeded in reviving Beatrice, since if a different author tells the story of Beatrice, Author-Battler cannot predict Beatrice’s every move. So it is actually possible that we will see another author shift with the seventh episode.

Well, see you in the episode 7 thread~