Does anyone else feel like they're always missing the message of a story?

[Funyarinpa]

Warning: Long post. No TL;DR.

I want to preface this post by saying that I’m 18. That is to say, I believe I can assume that I’m younger than most people on this forum. That amounts to less life experience, less maturity, and less exposure to literature- especially in the context of the demographic of this forum.

I’ve loved narratives since I was a little child. I learned to read at six, started to read as a hobby at seven, and now I have two full bookcases’ worth of books and then some. I think I have the right to say I’ve read a lot of books for my age. That love then carried on to video games with a narrative focus and eventually visual novels.

I can count Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy, Battle Royale, Dune, Kafka On The Shore, GONE among my favorite novels. On the video games front, my favorites are Persona 3, Persona 4 Golden, Dark Souls, NieR (alongside others). As for visual novels, Umineko, The House In Fata Morgana, Remember11, YU-NO, 999 and Virtue’s Last Reward are up there. I don’t know why I wrote this paragraph, but I wanted to give you a sample of the works that influenced and touched me.

real post starts here

All my life, despite engaging with a sizable amount of narrative work, I always feel like I’m “missing the point” of a story. This is especially true for multi-layered stories- most relevantly, Umineko. FULL SPOILERS FOR UMINEKO follow. I think I gave up two Episodes in- the Virgilia lecture (in Episode… 3, was it?) did rejuvenate my interest for a while but I just gave up after a while. By Chiru, I was already taking everything in at literal face value and I didn’t even understand why Beatrice was comatose. In EP8, I chose the “Trick” ending fully deliberately, thinking it was what the game wanted me to choose. Admittedly, I was fifteen then, but it doesn’t change that 95% of the game’s themes and messages flew right over my head.

This is just one example. Whenever I’m reading or playing something, I always have trouble noticing or understanding metaphors, allusions and the like. Don’t even get me into allegorical works. I always miss the significance of philosophical/ abstract dialogue or text. Any analysis I read after playing or reading a work has far more insight into that work than I do.

This insecurity of mine has gotten to the point where I’m starting to grow reluctant about playing/reading things that I suspect may be over my head. Most recently, this is happening while I’m reading Subahibi where I feel I’m missing every philosophical theme the game is trying to tackle.

I think I’d call this feeling “narrative anxiety”.

Does anyone else feel similar? I doubt many people not confident of their analytical skills would gravitate towards liking Umineko (or any other Ryukishi works), but I’m just wondering if anyone else can relate to constantly feeling that they’re not understanding the message of a novel or a game.

[akafa123]

Yes, yes, yes! This happens to me very often. Especially that english is not my first language. I read Umineko when I was 15-16 too and I gotta say I was confused most of the time about what the hell was going on on the screen. I remember myself being so engaged in whodunnit that I refused to see anything else that story has to offer.

Any analysis I read after playing or reading a work has far more insight into that work than I do.

This too, I’m not really good with words and when I try to write something it ends up being butchered and weird. And I might get the message wrong. But when I read other people’s posts it’s so clear and understandable that I get this complex where I don’t want to write anything at all, because no one would probably read it anyway.

So yeah that happens to me a lot, now I’m happy I’m not the only one. Thanks for making that post.

[Wonderlander]

I was the same way. Because I started reading Umineko when I was 14, during weekends where I could come home, AND because it was like my first visual novel, took me months to finish, and I didn’t even understand Episode 7 at all.

But it does get better. Back when I was 14, I had like no knowledge. Even now, at 19, I can’t say I am well versed in stuff. But the ability to imagine what those stuff are much better from before. For example, you listed Remember11, and I read it last year, and for a mind-screw novel, I had much less trouble understanding it, even towards the end. We mature basically over the years.

But some novels are just not meant to be understood. So that they can get away with complex explanations I guess?

But it happens to every regular knowledged about philosophy/science etc. stuff.

[amenenee]

With a story like Umineko, it’s easy to think you’ve missed the point of it all, I think. It’s really complex, and it made no sense to me at all the first time I read it. I had to basically be spoonfed some truths of some characters, unfortunately, and it was the only way I managed to understand what was going on during my second read through. The visual novel is really vague about a lot of things, and I personally don’t know how people could figure out what was happening all by themselves. And I felt personally attacked in EP8, because some of the goats were me at one point.

[Bernkastelle]

(Repost because a major spoiler tag wasnt working ; ; my apologies, still getting used to the fourm)!

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I love analyzing things, solving puzzles, mystery, philosophy, well versed in spiritual/magical references of Umineko…and yet…

I didnt understand anything at all in Umineko about the meaning/point of the story until Ep7, truthfully

I was also younger when I first read it, from 15 years old (Ep1) to 17 years old (Ep7). I think even if I read it now at 24 years old from the start, Umineko is still a long term puzzle to understand. I wouldn’t grasp the concepts right away. I can only say I would now since I know the story like the back of my hand! ;;

I get where you are coming from though, I dont think your anxiety is unfounded. I think one can know a good story is written when you read it all, still aren’t clear, but then go back and re read it and see all the hints, and clues, subtle comments, and you say, “Aaah…I see now!” And a way to enjoy the story a second time.
Even if you don’t re read the entire thing, thinking back to events in the story with the perspective of the ending is a good way too.

From large works like Umineko , to even small novels like The Little Prince, I’ve always enjoyed stories I don’t grasp at all the first time. To revisit stories, and see more as time goes on, I think that is a treat. The story never ends, and the meanings are numerous and a feast to enjoy thinking about.

Full series spoilers below:

I appreciated Umineko as even the meta characters (the witches, Battler, etc.) Themselves often didn’t understand Beato’s gameboard fully. Featherine herself didn’t understand all the gameboards fully until the end of Ep7. And Battler at Ep6. For Ep7, It was certainly a very direct Ep (“tearing out the guts” - so to speak - that is, exposing Yasu. Whereas in contrast the prior gameboards were more poetic and Beatrice’s identity remained. Its why often Ryukishi has Question arcs (unsolvable initial story) and Answer arcs (showing us, the readers, the meaning, but even then not entirely direct). In Umineko, its said Ep1-4 is Question arcs and Ep5-8 is Answer arcs. Its good to go back from Ep7 only for the events on Rokkenjima. I see Ep8 as not part of the main tale. the whole message of Umineko (mainly Beatrice’s tale of love - “without love it cannot be seen” - this riddle is laid to rest in Ep7) but I read it as a conclusion for Ange. After all, she became the last living true Ushiromiya. How will things be resolved for her? What will happen to her? Will she realize the truth? And Ep8 felt like that, written for her. Especially because all the real world events took place off Rokkenjima. And the tales in the meta world were centered around Ange finding the truth - her truth - and her family once more in the golden land. It was also to resolve her trauma with Maria and the Mariage Sociere, and magic as a whole. Whether that resolution was to accept or deny magic. Indeed the entire ending of Umineko as a series itself ended with Ange. As it should, since she was the surviving Ushiromiya. Thematically and how the story was set up from the start, it makes sense also why the direction went that way.
For Beatrice’s story itself, the true ending is Ep7. To understand the ending and meaning of Beatrice’s riddle, the end of Ep6 and into Ep7 is needed to tie in it. To add Ep8 will be confusing.
But there’s no way to solve it or understand it fully before then. You can grasp some theories (and indeed Shkanontrice theory was there, as early as Ep2 in the fandom!) but how it was really meant or to be understood cant be reached until end of Ep7[

Umineko is so hard to invite people to read because it truly is one of those unique stories that you need to keep pushing through. It’s not a linear or clear cut story at all! Higurashi is the same. Ryukishi is that type of writer, I feel. I wouldnt feel too worried when it comes to his works. Even just one character has so many riddles and puzzles - let alone the entire story! ;;

What kept me going through was the whole world of the story. While I didnt understand the point or meaning I was being taken to, I enjoyed to read about the events going on, the world, and I enjoyed the company, so to speak, of all the colorful characters. At times there was shocking things and the mystery aspect appealed to me too. All while reading, I kept having faith this will go somewhere, and the complete number of Eps wasn’t released back then too😅 But I think I wouldn’t have minded even if it was an endless story.

I think the best thing to tackle that anxiety is to just try to take the story, Umineko, or any riddle-like story, at face value first. Once you reach the end, if its still not understandable, try to go from the start and see if you had noticed any reference or foreshadowings in the journey to the end. If there’s nothing, chances are its just the author tried to be “deep” without really grasping their own message/concept. But if there is - armed with the ending and overall events in hand - you can easily crack it.

But yes; for stories like Umineko, and even again, shorter ones like The Little Prince, which are filled with riddles and metaphors, they arent understood until the end, and until they’re either read over or thought about over a period of time with that ending in mind. All the analysis written after definitely doesn’t come at once! And if one claims to know so, usually they are missing a lot of other details, hints, or meanings.

As (Ep7~ Ep8 spoilers) Featherine said, her realization of Beatrice’s tale would satisfy her to think about for another eternity in the same manner, its true for the readers too!

[Aspirety]

I see a lot of you guys complaining about having difficulty digesting these narratives, but you’re all saying that you read these stories from a young age. This isn’t to be understated; your problem stems from lack of experience. When I was 16 there’s no way I would have properly understood Umineko. But then I read more, I studied more English and Literature, and those skills naturally developed. I learned about metaphor, and how “everything is written for a reason”, she the more stories I consumed and the more time I spent talking about them and writing about them, I developed a skill for analysing stories and expressing my thoughts on them.

These are things that take time and experience. Don’t worry so much if you feel like you’re missing something, you just need to train your mind to spin the chessboard and think about why the author wrote the scene in the way he did. And don’t feel intimidated by other people’s eloquent analysis! If you have a thought or feeling you’d like to express regarding the story, don’t worry about how you might sound, just do it. Then the simplest ideas can have value, people will appreciate you sharing your reflections, and it will help hone your own skills. Take your time with it, and have fun!

And I guess another thing is: don’t forget that you’re analysis is your own. It’s important to try and reach an understanding of what the author is trying to convey, but the answer you reach won’t necessarily be the same as everyone else. Don’t be afraid of reaching your own answers. Really, the more personal your interpretation, the more valuable it becomes in a place like this.

[Funyarinpa]

Thanks guys. Hearing that means a lot. <3