The issue with this approach is that Battler started walking towards the pots, and only because Kinzo stopped him he didn’t reach them. If he is the culprit, then going near the pots would only implicate himself by giving him an opportunity to be the one who slipped the key into the pot. As such, why would Battler bother getting near the pots, assuming that he had already somehow put the key into one? It could be that he guessed correct that Kinzo would stop him, and thought that being restrained by Kinzo provided the best alibi for placing the key into the pot, but he could’ve just pretended that he’s had enough of corpses and stayed away vomiting or something without it seeming that suspicious at all. So, Battler taking the risk of implicating himself by walking to Kinzo seems unnecessary.
If only a key switch wasn’t so neatly blocked by red, I would assume that the paintjob on the keys was made to conceal a key switch by having two keys with a skull painted on them. Misleading reds is not how these boards are supposed to go, but I can’t help but ask for confirmation: Regarding the red “[color=Red]The key that Battler found in Kyrie and Rudolf’s room is the exact same one that was in the pot.[/color]”, if there are two copies of the same key (that is, their shape is identical, they open the same locks) with both having a skull painted on them, does this red deny the possibility of the key Battler found in the bedroom being a different copy of the same key as the one that was found in the pot? I would expect that red to deny that possibility, otherwise riots will ensue.
I’ve been a bit curious about the Cock Robin thing too. If there was one victim and multiple culprits, I’d take it as a hint towards there being multiple culprits who conspired to kill and bury the victim. However, the opposite is true - there are multiple victims but only a single culprit. Perhaps the culprit felt like they are Cock Robin and the victims are the townspeople, in that poem? The culprit thought everyone is conspiring against them and killed them because of it?
It looks like all it took to return you all to life was, ironically, to murder someone.
Now then, let’s begin, shall we?
I feel like, since I’ve killed one of you, that I should make Xak’s death not be in vain and clarify some potential paths and subsequent dead ends.
I feel like at this stage it should be important to suggest not to fall into the same trap you’d unintentionally fallen into with Pact around breaking alibis. This more or less applies for most of the seeming alibi situations. A game where Battler manages to slip away due to a harsh wordplay in red would be pretty pointless. If I’ve seemed to avoid giving definitive reds on people’s movements it’s twofold: both to keep you in a sense of confusion but also because reds about movements are still generally insufficient and can be danced around, and the whole thing becomes a mess. So I would suggest to keep on the path of reason when it comes to the alibi shindings.
Fair enough.
The issue would then be as to how Kanon managed to stay inside of the library while getting the two keys out of the room. Remember, after all, while you don’t need a key to lock the upper lock - the lower one is a different story. And both were locked.
I… don’t think one is able to control one’s actions during sleepwalking. Like neither the sleepwalker nor the outside source. I could be wrong on that. It’d be quite the task for Shannon to be sleepwalking, specifically remove the bookcase, unlock the study, let Kanon in and do nothing (all while still sleeping) and then lock the door and push the bookcase back after he left.
Of course, the underlying issue of the key still remains, even if all of this were to stand.
I’d also like to clear up a thing or two I’ve seen discussed in Discord that could potentially be taken the wrong way. All of these are related to the key problem.
At the time this red was made, it raised some brows given the wording, but I assure you there’s nothing special at work here. I was simply trying to word the red to seem more like a rule set in stone. At the time, I’d overlooked a somewhat contrived option that this left red out in the open like Battler dropping the key but choosing not to do anything about it. But at this point, that option should be denied. There is no trick or wordplay when it comes to this red. Any bizarre wording is just weirdness on my part.
While I’m on the subject of Battler dropping the key, another theory suggested on Discord (I believe by Zepfur) was that as he was giving his jacket to Shannon, the rule about Battler noticing dropping the key would stop being in effect, and that in the time before Shannon started the searching, the key dropped out, hence making her search still perfect despite the blunder.
Naturally, there is no pot and the end of that rainbow. Assume the dropping rule can be applied as liberally as you wish. (Reasonably liberally, of course.)
Speaking of Shannon’s search, I noticed that this red:
left a rather annoying possibility that the ‘examination’, given the context in which the red was given, could be taken to mean that it referred only to the coat, but not the rest of Battler’s person. I also realized ‘oversights’ is a bit too general, letting you move about to something like ‘a-ha! well of course she had no oversights - there was only ONE oversight!’ or something. So, to clarify this red definitively: [color=red]Had a key, or key-like object been present in any article of clothing Shannon had searched, she would have found it.[/color] This is what the examination and oversight parts refer to.
And speaking of the post with this red:
This one was kind of a fuck-up on my end. I couldn’t be bothered to check the narrative, which implies there’s more than one waistcoat pocket. For the purposes of the game, however, assume that there was only one waistcoat pocket to begin with for the sake of keeping things simple. It’s not a hint suggesting unreliable narration, just a mistake on my end.
(Doesn’t seem like too many people noticed so not that big of a deal but was brought up today, so…)
Next, I think it was brought up that the description of the red skull key isn’t exactly the same in two different instances of the story, thus suggesting two such keys existing or possible duplicates. Even though such a possibility won’t necessarily hep you with the problem of the key’s disappearance, you could still potentially claim something like ‘the key Battler found in the room and the one in the pot aren’t literally the same but they unlock the same thing so they are technically the same’. I want to assure you there’s no such thing at play here. [color=red]There is only, and always has been, only one key that could unlock the lock the red skull key ended up unlocking.[/color] (If this red sounds weird it’s because I couldn’t be fucked to look up which part of the lock it unlocked. Sorry fam. You have my word this one’s legit, though.)
Uh, let’s see…
[color=red]All of the events are presented in chronological order, and take place within the same timeline.[/color] Zepfur wanted to go with that narrative trick. Unfortunately, it’s not the case.
Finally, while you’re all asking interesting questions, I do advise you keep them simple and focused more on the chain of events rather than the culprit’s potential motivations. When you’re down in the dumps this much, speculation on the whys of the hows won’t get you far. The sea is endless and the explanations that could potentially wringled out many - and few if any giving a clear path to a solution. Again, while these questions are interesting, focusing on them too much won’t necessarily lead you to a solution here. My best advice is to first work towards a ‘how’ if possible and then wonder if some of the oddities of the culprit’s motivations would be able to fit with it.
(Then again, you’ve been doing that this entire time, so maybe I should just… let this play out. After all, I of all people should know players can catch an unexpected second wind from practically nothing.)
I just want to mention that I usually start digging into all the interesting whys and stuff because it seems like the direct approach of looking at the how is not bearing any fruit. Looking at things from a different angle can help get rid of false assumptions or otherwise broaden one’s horizons when it seems like there’s nothing but a brick wall ahead… but if that’s not going to be useful, back to beating one’s head against the wall it is, I guess.
I can at best give my own take on it, really. Fact is I’m only saying what I am because in my mind I’ve already got an ideal way of reaching the truth. Hard to judge how much of the ‘whys’ here will be helpful in reaching a solid conclusion because of that. For all I know one right question could, as you say, lead to a different perspective on the situation.
And honestly, given that you appear to have hit a brick wall, any approach to keep the discussion going is good.
So, feel free to carry on as you wish. It all contributes in its own right when all is said and done. Especially in a situation like this.
Anyhow. New ideas, new ideas… I wonder if it might be possible for Battler to somehow plant the red skull key on one of the siblings in a way that makes them unknowingly drop it into the pot? Sounds pretty implausible, but might as well claim something such as “[color=Blue]Battler sneakily planted the key into someone’s sleeve, and it fell into the pot when they were examining the pots[/color]”.
I have the strangest feeling I’ve seen someone suggest a variation of this…
Oh well. As you probably yourself have realized, the issue becomes that it’s impossible to time to the keys falling out of the sleeves. But then again, you could claim the plan was to never have the key fall out into the pot to begin with, so, let’s just go with this:
[color=red]Directly before it fell into its respective pot, the red skull key was held directly by a hand. It was intentionally dropped into the pot.[/color]
Very decisive. I wonder if you might be so kind as to clarify whether Battler ever was within a hand’s reach of the pots after the group entered the kitchen and before the key was found inside the pot. This is information our narrator Shannon could reasonably be expected to be aware of, so surely it isn’t that much to ask?
Naturally. The distance would’ve been too great for him to reach during that scene - the pots were opposite of the doorway. Kinzo restraining him just becomes hilariously bizarre if he could’ve simply stretched his hand out.
Just a quick one in the morning before I drop dead again.
[color=blue]Battler secretly puts the key in the pot. (not in the kitchen.) Then Krauss or Natsuhi moved the pot to the kitchen. They were hypnotized to do that and then hang themselves.[/color]
[color=red]The pot the red skull key was found in was on the stove in the kitchen when the red skull key was dropped in it. The key was dropped in it only once.[/color]
That’s no good, though. You can just adjust the theory to have Battler drop it if he’s the culprit. So let’s just get rid of this angle:
[color=red]Nobody on the island possesses the power to hypnotize someone or any other skill which would make someone act without them being fully consciously aware of it. Nobody on the island possesses the skill to implant ideas or images into someone’s head for the sake of getting them to act a certain way. Nobody lost their ability of free will during the course of the gameboard.[/color] (Minus dead people technically, but you get what I’m saying here.)
I’ve come up with an idea.
Given the fact that you happen to be stuck, and that we’ve already passed the two week mark, I’m proposing that after a certain amount of time with no progress (let’s say when it reaches three weeks, maybe?) this game is temporarily closed and a new one - with all the same characters and the exact same setup, rules and culprit, is formed.
It’d be a good way to start confirming your suspicions while at the same time letting your brain focus on something else. After all, looking at the same problem for too long could in itself be part of the problem keeping you from looking at it from a new perspective.
Xak, despite his surrender, would still be allowed to participate, provided he revealed nothing about the mystery revealed to him.
After the new gameboard is sufficiently solved, this game would be reopened for posting theories again.
Of course, if the majority of the players currently playing were to vote for this option themselves, then I could probably get on making it before the deadline would expire.
I like the idea for the extra WTC feeling of a looping gameboard. Don’t think I’ve seen it done with one of these.
…
Granted it’d leave us with even more mysteries to make sense of.
But overall I’m not opposed to the idea and would not complain should you go with it.
Well, I agree with this option, if everyone is ok with that, of course we have to hear others’ opinions first.
If you’ve already prepared it, of course, don’t want to keep you there with a game you can’t post anywhere…
Solely for the fact that you proposed the things, it looks like we’re pretty much stuck, anyway.
And I agree with Rune, looping gameboards are ones I haven’t seen yet here.
It’s both your choice and other people’s, I’m okay with it, like the idea, though.
As for the deadline, I’ll let others’ choose, I’ll still try with this gameboard while it is the active one.
I’m also fine with this, there’s no telling when or if any new attack vectors would show up on their own.
If the culprit is the same and we solve the second board, I’m sure that’ll make the puzzles in this game easier to focus down.
Alright. That should be the majority then, at least.
If we were to do this, though, I realized I might have to move the schedule to be a bit less then a week. The gameboard would take me 2-3 days to write, and I’d like to do it before New Year due to the lack of time I’ll have afterwards. So the new deadline would be the 27th of December (the end of that day). If no progress is made by then, I’ll temporarily suspend this thread and start writing the new gameboard. (This is to be sure that I can write the new board in its entirety without fearing someone will come out of nowhere and solve this one when I’m on the last paragraph, making all the work for nothing.)
Might as well take some last potshots while the clock’s ticking down.
[color=blue]Key was made out of metal but that metal was gallium, which melts at slightly above room temperature(=not simply on its own). So it was solid when they found it but melted from Battler’s body temperature once in the pocket. Nanjo prepared and switched this fake key while Battler was crying. He had a plausible excuse to have this stuff on him since it can be used in cancer treatment, hence Kinzo said nothing about it during his search earlier. (George might work too but you get the idea)[/color]
I mean… it very much would (= simply on its own). After all, it’s not as if the original meaning behind it is that the key willed itself into melting or something. If it melted over time, which it had to have, it would’ve undoubtedly had to have been due to some sort of temperature difference, hence why it would’ve definitely been ‘on its own’.
Fair but then where do you draw the line between ‘on its own’ and ‘due to something else’.
Cause without one you could argue that no matter what someone(like the culprit) did to cause a temperature difference (or the circumstances under which it could happen), it wouldn’t melt ever.
I can just make it simple and say: [color=red]The key Battler put into his pocket never melted.[/color]
In other news, I’ve decided to start writing the new gameboard a bit earlier than planned and progress has essentially skyrocketed, landing me with about 45 pages so far. As a result, I think I’m going to prematurely close theory time for this board, simply because at this point I can’t take the risk of someone stepping in and possibly making all those pages for nothing by getting it right in one shot.
My apologies if you had any theories you were saving for last minute, but I promise you, you will have your chance at some point soon enough.
The new board will hopefully be all done tomorrow.
