Looking for critique of my rule ideas?

I’m thinking of drawing up a gameboard (ambitious for someone who is only up to EP 4, I know) so I drafted out a set of rules.

I seek critique, to see if someone can spot any issues with the rules. Also I’m kind of posting them here in case anyone decides they want to use them before I finish drawing up my gameboard.

Not all of the colors used here are used in Umineko (to my knowledge anyway), so I’d say this thread is spoiler free up to EP 2, but until Aspi gives me the go ahead, I’ll say don’t read unless you’ve finished Ep 4, alright? (In case I accidentally put a spoiler in without noticing, I’m defaulting to the epsiode I’ve read up to.)

Rule 1: The game will (mostly) be written ahead of time by the game master, and the story will gradually be released in the thread, scene by scene. The players must aim to defeat the gamemaster, by answering all mysteries the gamemaster presents them with.

Rule 2: All of the players have been collectively assigned one piece on the gameboard. Anything they see, the players will see, therefore any account from their POV can be 100% trusted. This piece will hereafter be referred to as “The Main Piece”

Rule 3: If a scene is described from a character’s POV then they would agree with that presentation of the scene. However, this person could be lying, or they could be being deceived.

Rule 4: If something is said in red text, then it is true.

Rule 5: The players’ aim in this game is to get to the end of the gameboard with none of the gamemaster’s lime questions unanswered. Answering a lime question with magic is an invalid move. Lime questions must be mysteries whose answers are not immediately obvious, and pertain to the killings that are occurring.

Rule 6: Proper form for answering lime questions is to use blue text to propose a theory that answers the question. The blue should only be used to state theories that answer lime questions. A blue is struck down and made invalid if it contradicts any pre-existing reds, and the game master will note whenever a blue is struck down. A blue can be struck down by a red after the blue is first put forward, (obviously). A blue is valid as long as it is not struck down by a red, it does not necessarily have to be correct, it just needs to be valid.

Rule 7: At various points in the game, usually when a mystery presents itself we will have a round table battle of Lime, Red and Blue. These Battles help give the game a bit of spice, but I reserve the right to keep cards up my sleeve until later. They will end at an arbitrary point, as determined by myself, the gamemaster.

Rule 8: The gamemaster reserves the right to end the gameboard at any time. The Main Piece’s death is usually where the gameboard ends, but this does not necessarily have to be the case.

Rule 9: When the gameboard ends, the game will move into the final showdown. In the final showdown, the players must attempt to answer any remaining relevant lime questions while the gamemaster tries to come up with as many unanswered limes as they can, until the gamemaster loses.

Rule 10: If the players cannot succeed in the final showdown, then the gamemaster must disclose the solution to the board to at least one trusted person (like a Moderator). This trusted person must then announce (in the red) if the solution “checks out”, or not. This trusted person may no longer participate in the game, and may not disclose the solution unless the gamemaster says they can. If they say the solution does not "check out* due to it being contradictory to one of the reds or a similar issue, then the gamemaster must privately ask the trusted person why it doesn’t work. If the gamemaster cannot provide a counter argument in private telling the trusted person why it makes sense, then the game is null and void. If this occurs, the bogus solution may be revealed.

Those cover the mechanics, finally, some housekeeping rules:

Rule 11: The gamemaster may elect to fuse two blues together if they say the same thing. This makes his planning sheets easier to organize and should be announced in the thread. If a player feels they do not mean the same thing, they may voice their objections in the thread.

Rule 12: You do not have to get the right answer to answer a lime question. You just have to give a valid answer, which is not contradicted by the reds. This means that the final solution proposed by the Players that wins the game may not be the exact solution the gamemaster had in mind, and it may differ on small matters that the gamemaster did not bother to argue back on.

To use an Umineko example for Rule 12, if the players give a wrong answer to the lime question How did the marked rose vanish? but the gamemaster decides to not waste time on debating the matter, then by the end of the game, the Player’s theory might state that Gohda plucked it as a cooking ingredient, and he told no-one because he feared a punishment for using such a wilted rose, while the truth at the end may turn out to be that it was plucked by Kinzo because he lost the rose in his study.

Rule 13: Keeping the games short would make them easier to write, but someone could make a REALLY LONG STORY with these rules. If they do so, noting that the story will be REALLY LONG in the first post would be a good idea so players know what kind of commitment they’re getting themselves into, though story length can be guessed somewhat by the number of pieces.

Rule 14: Character actions should make a certain degree of internal sense, according to their prior actions. You can’t have some giant wimp secretly be the killer unless you can justify why he was pretending(?) to be a wimp.

5 Likes

The rules look good, I especially like the Lime questions. I feel that it will give future games a more defined direction and objective.

I think my only question lies with the death of the “Main Piece”. Will the death of this piece be written ahead of time? Or will it be based on the actions of the other game pieces?

I’m not sure if this was explained in your rules or not.

Well the whole plot is written ahead of time sooooooo…

Yes.

Remember no player has direct control of a piece. It is a story being told to them with round table discussions interspersed between the scenes. The Main piece is meant to mimic Battler’s role in Umineko, as a POV we can rely on.

1 Like

Alright, awesome

From Discord.


So let’s get some things straight
The win condition of the players is to form a valid blue theory for every lime question?
(Also call them green goddamn lol)
Then that raises a few questions
Can the game master continue perpetually adding new lime questions, or is there a set limit?
And why would the game master avoid responding to a theory that’s valid but incorrect? I don’t understand the strategic value of doing so.
Does every lime question need to be answered within a time limit, or can it be there until the end of the game? Same with blue.
Moving on, the loss condition for the players is to reach the end of the game and not be able to form answers to all lime questions, right?
What determines the end of the game?
The win condition of the game master is to reach the end of the game with at least one lime question unanswered, is that right?
The loss condition of the game master is… For the players to answer all lime questions? (Again, if they answer all, what’s stopping the GM from making more lime questions ad infinitum?)
Or is it being unable to deny a blue theory?
Basically what I’m getting at is
What happens in the situation where a Blue theory isn’t denied, but a green question also isn’t answered?
You’ve got two conflicting forces here
In Umineko, this would result in the Game Master’s victory. All Beatrice has to do is leave one unanswered question and she can prove that “Therefore, magic exists”, resulting in her victory. But would that be the same in your game? Or does the Game Master have a requirement to deny every single Blue theory?

I chose to name them based off of what will have to be typed in to the color codes on the forums. If that’s dumb and i should just call them green questions anyway, just let me know, but it does make it less confusing for a player trying to recreate them in a quote. green lime

I take it that your concern is the gamemaster bringing up a bunch of irrelevant trash, like: What is Eva’s cup size? in order to waste time.

I’m going to answer that question with some quotes.[quote=“pictoshark, post:1, topic:770”]
Lime questions must be mysteries whose answers are not immediately obvious, and pertain to the killings that are occurring.
[/quote]

As they have to be relevant to the killings, and they have to be answers that are not immediately obvious, I don’t see how the game could be dragged on endlessly, there are only a limited number of mysteries.

To avoid wasting time discussing uninteresting matters. My rose example is a pretty good one. If they know that it’s not one of the interesting core mysteries of their plot then what’s the point arguing about it too hard?

Alright. Time to clear something up. The wind conditions for the humans are as follows.

  1. Answering every lime question in the final showdown, with the gamemaster not bringing up anymore

  2. Victory through bogus answer. Y’know where the script made no sense because the gamemaster was bad at their job.

Here is the win condition for the gamemaster:

  1. The players completely surrender and ask for the solution. That is all.

The Final Showdown does not have a time limit, In this game blue theories invalidate lime questions by answering them, making them pointless to ask (as they have been answered). If in the final showdown, there are no lime questions still standing, the mastermind may:

  1. concede defeat

  2. bring up a red to invalidate some blues therefore giving them more answered limes to work with

  3. bring up a mystery in the story the playeras have not yet solved, in the form of a lime question

If there are ANY answered limes, then the game is in a stalemate until someone can come along and answer them, or until the players widely admit defeat.

@ghagler’s game was in a state like this for quite a while, until someone came along and answered the mystery.

The limes basically make the player’s targets clear, and give the game a more focused feeling.

They also make victory easier to define.

CTRL+C

Ummmm… Where is it?

Ummmm…

AH! There!

CTRL+V

“As they have to be relevant to the killings, and they have to be answers that are not immediately obvious, I don’t see how the game could be dragged on endlessly, there are only a limited number of mysteries.”

Anything I missed? Do you get it now?

If I may make a suggestion. In Beatrice’s game the blue can only be used in response to Beatrice’s assertions. Why not make it that in your game, the blue can only be used to answer lime questions? That removes any unnecessary use.

tfw you thought you wrote that, but then you didn’t

should i say it may only be used for answering a green, or pushing towards answering a green?

I wanna say answering. That way the blue serves a specific purpose of countering the green, pressuring the Game Master to deny them with red.

alright, I’ll add it to the rules

Looks pretty solid then!