Regarding the Red (Umineko Full Series Spoilers)

I don’t disagree that it’ll have multiple meanings at multiple levels; that’s precisely my point, as well. The only point where we appeared to disagree is whether we can gleam any useful truth from that ambiguity; if you weren’t arguing that we could not, but agree we can, then I suppose we aren’t disagreeing at all. But @Karifean and I assumed you were arguing we could not, with this line:

I don’t disagree that the Witch side intended to mislead with that ambiguity, but I would disagree if one stated no truth was to be had at all. If you don’t disagree, then I guess we can close this really long discussion on this minor subpoint.

It doesn’t change the nature of the Red vs. Blue battles. Beatrice simply created and used them for a deeper motive. Even if a player doesn’t want to win chess, it doesn’t mean chess works differently. Her ulterior motive doesn’t somehow change the way the game’s played; it just changes the focus of the novel away from being centered on the game.

The establishment of the Game was very clear, even if the motive behind the establishment of the Game was not:

Beatrice: "From now on, everything I speak in red is the truth. There is no need to doubt or question it."
Battler: "And I should believe you when you say that?"
etc. paraphrased: “This is necessary to establish a game between us; otherwise, we’ll be stalled due to the Devil’s Proof, etc.”

That’s how it all began: a Game of Red Truths and, eventually, a move offered to the other side, Blue Truth, to force the Red side to respond. Then it went into the games like we saw, even as late as the end of Chiru: Erika fighting Beatrice in a Red/Blue match, for example, with her fancy pirate hat. Or maybe that was Ange/Beatrice? Anyway, I remember it happening near the end: a clear Red/Blue logic battle of that kind.

It’s not what Beatrice’s ultimate motive was; I grant you that. It’s not even what Umineko is about. But that doesn’t change the Red v. Blue games; it just changes the focus of the story that the Red v. Blue games showed up in.

If that’s what you were really talking about and not the Red/Blue games themselves, then I certainly agree; there’s just a distinction to be made between the two that’s important.