Just a minor nitpick without getting myself dragged into the discussion: I am fairly certain Battler was able to say in red that Asumu is his mother, he only choked up when he tried to say that he was born by her. Semantics matter and I always thought it a pretty strong statement that her being his mother was still accepted by the red. Just keep that in mind when you go on reading, the red truth apparently has a certain bias when it comes to how people understand the meaning of words.
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Semantics matter, youâre right! Iâm not disputing that Battlerâs mother is Asumu, just as Ange is his little sister. But Battler isnât Asumuâs son, in the sense that he isnât the child born from her. The red truths seem to go with that reading. Here are all the red truths I have from that conversation:
âMy name is Ushiromiya Battlerâ
âI am the Golden Witch, Beatrice. And I opened this game in order to fight Ushiromiya Kinzoâs grandchild Ushiromiya Battler."
âUshiromiya Battlerâs mother is Ushiromiya Asumu.â
âMy name is Ushiromiya Battler"
âIt was from Ushiromiya ââ [cut off statement: âIt was from Ushiromiya Asumu I was born.â)
âI am Ushiromiya Battlerâ
âYou are not Ushiromiya Asumuâs son.â
âUshiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumuâs son.â
âBattler is not Asumuâs sonâ
âNo one except Kinzoâs grandchild Battler is qualified to be an opponent.â
âAnge is ⌠my little sister.â
I will offer this concession: his ability to say Ange is his little sister can work as the proof that he can say Asumu is his mother even though theyâre not related by blood. However, itâs possible that Ange is related to Battler by blood because Battler is Kyrieâs son, and thatâs the reason he was able to say Ange is his little sister. Then we have to revisit the question of why he was able to say Asumu was his mother, he wasnât able to say that he was her son. The red truths do make that clear â itâs not just that he canât say he wasnât born from Asumu in red, Beatrice can definitively say he wasnât Asumuâs son in red. Why would that be?
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Mmh⌠Iâm guessing here myself, but Iâd say semantics and perspective. Just allow me to add the people who spoke your red truths:
Battler: âMy name is Ushiromiya Battlerâ
Beatrice: âI am the Golden Witch, Beatrice. And I opened this game in order to fight Ushiromiya Kinzoâs grandchild Ushiromiya Battler."
Battler: âUshiromiya Battlerâs mother is Ushiromiya Asumu.â
Battler: âMy name is Ushiromiya Battler"
Battler âIt was from Ushiromiya ââ [cut off statement: âIt was from Ushiromiya Asumu I was born.â)
Battler: âI am Ushiromiya Battlerâ
Beatrice: âYou are not Ushiromiya Asumuâs son.â
Beatrice: âUshiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumuâs son.â
(Beatrice?, canât remember this one): âBattler is not Asumuâs sonâ
Beatrice: âNo one except Kinzoâs grandchild Battler is qualified to be an opponent.â
Battler: âAnge is ⌠my little sister.â
Seeing it like this makes it obvious that it is Battler who makes the Red declaring Asumu being his mother because he truly regards her as his mother and for all intends and purposes she is. To him.
Beatrice however uses mother in the biological sense, thatâs why she had to urge Battler to say âborn fromâ, because otherwise his Red would have still been valid regardless. Only when he started to talk about biological motherhood, he started to choke.
Otherwise we clearly would have two conflicting Reds, because without adding the people speaking the reds, Asumu would be both declared to be Battlerâs mother and declared not to be his mother. Thatâd be a pretty glaring logic error if there would be just one ultimate red truth, wouldnât it? Instead it seems like the Red is far more flexible, adjusting to the meaning its user connects with the words. The only other possible explanation would be, if Battlerâs first red truth about Asumu being his mother was suddenly about Asumuâs supposedly dead child, but that would be a ludicrous thing given that he doesnât know about it. Wouldnât it even violate Knox #6?
Anyway, all I am saying is that it is far more likely that the Red simply uses the meaning its user is intending. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Ah! I think weâre in agreement, then! Part of whatâs going on is semantic: the conflicting statements arenât âBattlerâs mother is Asumuâ and 'Battlerâs mother isnât Asumu â but âBattlerâs mother is Asumuâ and âBattler isnât Asumuâs son.â Normally itâs logical to equate those statements, but Battler and Beatrice are using those terms in a way that doesnât require it. And, just as you say, part of whatâs going on is the perspective. Battler knows what he means when he says âmother,â and Beatrice knows what she means when she says âson.â If Asumu were part of that conversation, she might have her own meaning, and she might even be able to say âBattler is my son.â It seems like itâs not possible to say something demonstrably false in the red truth â Battler couldnât say he was born from Asumu, not even if he personally and deeply believed it â but you can state your own feelings and follow your own interpretations. And if itâs something like love of a mother, something that canât be seen, the person experiencing the emotion is always the final authority.
EDIT: BTW the last âBattler is not Asumuâs sonâ is spoken by Ange, who mediates between perspectives.
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Man, what a Episode. I had a lot of fun reading this one. The red and blue truth were pretty much spammed this chapter. These meta-world clashes just getting flashier and flashier huh. I love Erika so much. I love her because she takes a normally heroic role: A detective who is supposed to expose the truth and bring the culprit to justice and have her became the bad guy by dragging an innocent womanâs reputation through the mud, exposing truths that would have been better off being buried for good, and trying to take revenge against someone who had the nerve to contradict her. Sheâs no Beato, but she makes for a good change of pace after Beatrice stopped being our main antagonist.
And the music⌠ugh, Umineko just continues to deliver huh? All the new tracks were fantastic, songs like Aci-L and Proud dust were so hype. I groaned out loud when Discolor started playing because I knew we had officially hit rock bottom. Vyseâs series of emotes summed it up best honestly.
This Episode really pushed the Kinzo/Battler parallels huh? Early on in the Episode, Natsuhi and Ghost!Kinzo talked about how Kinzo became the Ushiromiya Head.
So, after Battler and Erika solved, I couldnât help but notice how even though he was the new head, he was treated more like a figurehead by the adults (excluding Natsuhi and Krauss).
I donât think I even need to say anything about the study debate. That scene speaks for itself.
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Iâm just chiming in for a second here.
@mimsy Youâre making the theory that Battler is Beatoâs son. Can we take that to mean that the person that usually goes around killing people is Battlerâs mother? And does the following red truth that we got in this very episode speak of the same person?
(Spoken by Virgilia, talking about Beato) The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make someone find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
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A good question, @VyseGolbez, and a good subject to think on. Virgilia says âthis child,â and while that could be a quirk of speech, I think she does mean âthis child, this Beatrice sitting in front of you.â Thereâs more than one Beatrice, which is made clear in this tale, when we have a piece Beatrice running around on the game board and a player Beatrice sitting listlessly in the Golden Land.
I donât think Beatrice is ever the real culprit. Iâd go farther and say I donât think Beatrice exists on Rokkenjima during the time of the murders. Someone invokes Beatriceâs name to take the blame horrible things. We get a hint of that with Natsuhi, who lets Beatrice take tbe blame for luring the servant and the child off the cliff. So for as long as Battler canât prove that a human was the culprit, Beatrice will take the blame, and keep them locked in this endless battle. That battle ended this episode, which means Battler must know the truth.
So even if âBeatrice is Battlerâs motherâ is true, âBattlerâs mother is the culpritâ might not be. Itâs the same kind of trick that allows âAsumu is Battlerâs motherâ and âBattler isnât Asumuâs sonâ to be true. We can mean different things by âmotherâ and âsonâ and we can mean different things by âBeatrice.â
It is worth thinking about whether the culprit and Battlerâs mother have some connection. Virgilia says something else very telling â this child Beatrice has nothing to gain from the epitaph and the epitaph murders. Battler interprets that to mean both things are immaterial to Beatrice, but sheâs presenting them to Battler, which gives these things weight. Is the same thing true for Battler on the island? Heâs being kept alive until the end, so the culprit can show these murders to him. Does the same reasoning apply for the culprit? Does the culprit want to show Battler the same thing Beatrice the Game Master, or even Beatrice the Mother of Battler, would?
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To take your thought one step further, thereâs basically the question âDo fragments exist in which Battler is killed earlier, and GM Beato simply chose to only show ones where he survives the longest?â Also for the sake of argument, letâs ignore Eva from episode 3.
So I went through the episode again and collected most red truths uttered in it. I categorized them into three categories, truths regarding the letter, truths regarding the murders, and the rest. What I didnât write down are truths stating rules from Knoxâ decalogue, truths we heard in an earlier episode (for the most part), and truths regarding the study and a few miscellanous other truths about Kinzo. I also tried to keep some repititions to a minimum, but if there are some, oh well. Some truths also fit in multiple categories, so they are listed in multiple.
Red Truths regarding the letter
Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
The number of people in this parlor is equal to the number of people on this island.
Before the family conference, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa left the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.
Of those who remain, only Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the second floor corridor, while all others were in the dining hall.
Krauss, Natsuhi and Genji did not even touch that letter!
Not a single person in the dining hallâŚno, thereâs a simpler way to say it. Among all those inside the mansion at 24:00, not a single person placed that letter in the corridor.
Neither Krauss nor Natsuhi nor Genji knocked!
This isnât the limited meaning of them knocking on the door, okay? It means they didnât use a pillar to transmit the sound or push the play button on a cassette tape theyâd recorded or create that knock sound by any means! Of course, this applies to direct, indirect, intentional, coincidental, and unintentional means!
At 24:00, excepting Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji in the second floor corridor and all of the people in the dining hall, no humans existed inside the mansion.
Let it be known that in addition to Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji, none of those in the dining hall knocked on that door. In this sense, âknockâ includes all direct, indirect, intentional, unintentional, and coincidental events that could create a knocking sound.
In short, this means it was impossible for any character wihin the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND. âŚAnd âany characterâ refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed.
No one in the mansion placed the letter in the hallway. This includes doing so by all concepts, such as directly, indirectly, intentionally, coincidentally, and unintentionally.
At 24:00, only Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa existed outside the mansion!
The letter never existed on the ceiling of the hallway.
Know that the letter never touched the serving cart.
It was impossible for anyone outside the mansion to influence anything inside the mansion after the family conference began.
None of the characters misidentified a knocking sound.
Misidentifying a knocking sound means this: they would not mistake a sound very similar to a knocking sound for a real knocking sound. Hitting a pillar to make something similar to a knocking sound is no good. When you record a knocking sound on a cassette tape and play it back, it becomes âthe sound of the tape with a knocking sound on itâ, and not a knocking sound. So thatâs no good either!
In other words, every one of them would correctly recognize a knocking sound of something truly hitting the door, and they definitely wouldnât mishear it. Itâs totally impossible that any sounds except hitting that door directly would be misinterpreted as a knock!!
âTo knockâ means someone hitting a door with their hand.
And none of them misinterpreted a knocking sound. Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were not involved with the making of a knocking sound. No one else existed inside the mansion. And âknockâ refers to the action of standing directly in front of the door and hitting it with a hand.
Red Truths regarding the murders
The detective isnât a culprit. No proof is needed to show this.
Furudo Erika isnât the culprit.
Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
The number of people in this parlor is equal to the number of people on this island.
Battler-kun isnât the culprit. Battler-kun didnât kill anyone. This can be said of all games.
Before the family conference, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa left the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.
Of those who remain, only Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the second floor corridor, while all others were in the dining hall.
At 24:00, excepting Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji in the second floor corridor and all of the people in the dining hall, no humans existed inside the mansion.
At 24:00, only Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa existed outside the mansion!
The next two truths are spoken between 12:00 PM and 1:00 PM of the 5th October. Might be important.
Anyone looking at George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, or Genjiâs corpses could confirm at a glance that they are dead.
At a glance, anyone could confirm that these corpses are dead, so itâs absolutely impossible that theyâre just playing dead.
In other words, after Kumasawa returned to the guesthouse, she never went to the second floor until morning.
In other words, after Gohda returned to the guesthouse, he never went up to the second floor until morning.
At 24:00 in the guesthouse, George, Jessica, and Maria were alive and in the second floor cousin room. Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa were on the first floor.
George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, and Genji really are dead.
At 24:00, Natsuhi, Krauss, and Genji were in a corridor on the second floor of the mansion. All of the remaining people were at the family conference in the dining hall. Of course, at that point in time, no murder had occured. Genji was also alive.
From 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM, Erika, Nanjo, and Gohda spent their time in the lounge on the first floor of the guesthouse.
After 24:00, Erika was with Nanjo the whole time until 3:00 AM.
Both your seal and your red truth are perfect. Nanjo had the alibi of being with Erika until 3:00 AM. And he didnât leave his room after 3:00 AM until morning.
Ushiromiya Battler returned to the cousin room at 3:00 AM and fell asleep. After that, until the discovery of the crime, absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened in the room!
In other words, it was impossible for Battler to commit murder or damage the corpses.
It is impossible for someone to reach the second floor of the guesthouse without anyone in the lounge noticing it. âŚThough of course, this only refers to reaching the second floor from inside the building.
It was impossible to reach the second floor of the guesthouse without passing through the lounge, and impossible to reach it at all without Erika, who was in the lounge, knowing about it!
Of all the people in the dining hall, not one of them left the dining hall until 1:00 AMâŚ!
When Genji finished transferring the call, he immediately returned to the waiting room.
At 1:00 AM, Eva sealed Genjiâs waiting room, and that seal was broken by Kanon, and Kumasawa in the morning when the crime was discovered.
During the short break at 1:00 AM, the first two to leave the dining hall were Rosa and Eva. Until Eva returned, everyone in the dining hall remained there. After seeing Rosa off, Eva went to the waiting room and sealed it. Of course, she did not enter the room at all at this time.
Genji never left the mansion after 24:00.
Ushiromiya Natsuhi is not the culprit!
Ushiromiya Krauss is not the culprit. And he was killed long ago, shortly after you heard his voice over the phone, get it?
Due to the above (Erikaâs explanation of her seals), the seals are guaranteed to be PERFECT. Miss Erikaâs seals were not broken by anyone, and deception is IMPOSSIBLE!!
Evaâs seal was of the same type as Miss Erikaâs. That is because this method of sealing was one that Miss Erika and Eva conceived of together after DINNER.
It is impossible to tear off any of the seals by any method without leaving marks.
There were no suspicious marks on any of the sealsâŚ!
All of Erikaâs and Evaâs seals were not tampered with in any way that hindered their ability to act as seals, such as being scraped off.
Lady Erikaâs lookout in the lounge was perfect. There were no small gaps or carelessness or times when she looked away for even a second.
Therefore, during their entire meeting in the lounge, only Rosa went up to the second floor!
All victimsâ deaths were homicides.
No examination of the corpses could have been mistaken.
No corpses exist except those of characters who have appeared in the story.
I can construct a theory with someone other than Aunt Natsuhi as the culprit.
Itâs possible to show a different truth by using a different interpretation!!
It has not been specified that the time of death was between 24:00 and 1:00.
From 1:00 AM until the discovery of the crime, it was impossible for any criminal action to occur in the cousin room!!
The death of the four in the cousin room has been proclaimed with the red text!!
Furthermore, those corpses were witnessed by a large number of people!!
When this court was opened, Lady Lambdadelta made a proclamation. She said this was a 24:00 answer session!
After Georgeâs death, his corpse was never moved!
After Jessicaâs death, her corpse was never moved!
After Mariaâs death, her corpse was never moved!
After Rosaâs death, her corpse was never moved!
After Genjiâs death, his corpse was never moved!
After Kraussâs death, his corpse was never moved!
Therefore, the corpses couldnât have vanished after being discovered!! Your theory about Kinzo carrying the corpses away fails!
Because weâve raised doubts about the time of death for all who have died so far, the alibis for everyone besides Aunt Natsuhi go back to square one!!
If you try to argue that the crime was impossible for everyone except Aunt Natsuhi, it wonât work!!
Miscellaneous Red Truths
I proclaim that Furudo Erika is the detective.
Furudo Erika had no influence on any of Beatoâs games before now.
She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
Furudo Erika only increases it by one person. Besides her, the number of people on this island is exactly the same as it was in the previous games.
The number of people in this parlor is equal to the number of people on this island.
This mountain of gold is real. All of the ingots piled up here are real, pure gold! There are absolutely no tricks such as replicas or fakes!!
This child has nothing to gain from having someone solve the Epitaph.
The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make someone find it for her or to snatch it away herself.
Whether the epitaphâs riddle is solved or not, this child stands nothing to gain at all.
Her goal is not to make someone experience fear. And it isnât to have revenge on someone either.
Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure.
Detectiveâs authority. The detective has the right to inspect all crime scenes. Stand back, Ushiromiya Battler. This is an official privilege of this game, which the Human side has accepted.
I (Natsuhi) never told anyone except Shannon that I like autumn.
Natsuhi, when did Kinzo ever say it was okay for you to engrave the One-Winged Eagle into your heart? Those were just the words of the Kinzo from your delusions, werenât they? âŚYou know, the real Kinzo⌠Not once in his entire life did he ever trust you from the bottom of his heart, and not once did he ever consider letting you bear the family crest!
The real Kinzo wouldnât say that. Disappear. You, the illusion of Kinzo inside Natsuhiâs mind, beautified by Natsuhi to suit her own purposes.
Pitiful woman. You will now face the truthâŚthat you never gained Ushiromiya Kinzoâs trust as long as he lived.
Beato wanted you to solve it, so she made this game, âŚthe riddles of this tale, âŚsolvable.
The red truth from the 4th game that Iâm not the son of my mother Asumu. The feeling that Dad was hiding something in both the first game and this game. In particular, in this game, it was made clear that there were some special circumstances having to do with my birth.
After listing all that, Iâd like to take a shot at the letter in this episode and who might have been the culprit in this episode.
The Letter
Well, the reds donât leave much room for arguing, the solution I arrived at is the following:
There never was a knock on the door. That knock with the letter in the hallway is simply a story everyone in the dining hall agreed upon. After all, apart from maybe Kanon and Shannon, everyone in the dining hall at that point could only profit of a third person (Beatrice) calling Battler the new Head. And if we further assume that either Kanon or Shannon is actually the current Beatrice on the island to whom the gold belonged before, then it makes sense for one of them bringing the Headâs Ring with them together with an envelope and some paper to write the proclamation that Rudolf read out aloud.
The Murders
As the truths from Virgilia were spoken between 12:00 PM and 1:00 PM, that is the latest point that those of the first twilight have died. Furthermore, we know that Krauss died shortly after the phone call. At the same time, that red truth confirms the existence of at least that one phone call. So we canât argue that no one actually died and the deaths that did happen were instead caused by the catastrophe we theorized to happen at the end of all gameboards. With other words, someone actually killed those people. I believe that the Battler culprit theory that Battler weaved is not the truth either. However, what is true is that the murders happened after the time of discovery of the crimes. After all, we as readers are allowed to ignore Knoxâ 2nd and can therefore be sure that Natsuhi wasnât the culprit. And that follows that the crime couldnât have happened during the night, since everyone has an alibi there. Now the question is, was it the same culprit as in the previous games? And why did Battler decide to scream, or even lie about the corpses? (Iâm not sure if the truths outright deny mistaking something else for the corpsesâŚ) For now Iâll go with my usual, and indeed theorize that it was either Kanon or Shannon. Even for those, I feel itâs just a bit out of character though, to which my thought right now is that this game was run by Lambdadelta. In the beginning of this episode, it was said that there might be actions that Beato could do, but would not do. This might be one of these things.
So who is Beatrice? Also revision of my original Kanon culprit theory in ep 4.
By now I really think that Beatrice is more likely to be Shannon, not Kanon. This episode made it even clearer that the promise Battler made was to âBeatriceâ herself, or rather the character that Beatrice represents. And that was simply Shannon, not Kanon. In my initial post I said I would state the how dunnit for Shannon, but really, for most murders itâs basically exactly the same for her as for Kanon, since the workaround for truths stating her name is basically identical to the one for Kanon. Furthermore, my current thought is that Kanon is one accomplice to her that is constant. It might even be that Shannon herself doesnât murder at all but instead either outright told Kanon to do that for her or only implied it. With their brother-sister bond they are close enough that I could see that happening. So right now it is unclear to me who of Shannon and Kanon actually murders people, however I am sure that it is Shannon that wants to communicate with Battler through that.
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Thereâs an excellent list of red truths and riddles above me, and I canât wait to delve into it, but thereâs one I want to point out because Iâll probably forget it later if I donât.
I (Natsuhi) never told anyone except Shannon that I like autumn.
Does anyone else find this red truth ⌠kind of weird? Natsuhiâs a human, so she shouldnât be able to speak a red truth. I canât tell whether this is a major hint, or a temporary suspension of the rules, or an honest-to-goodness slip-up by the author. But just putting the text in red draws your attention to it and invites you think about its implications. Does that mean Shannon has to be involved with the crimes, or that she knows about the baby from 19 years ago? Or is it a literal red herring?
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If I recall correctly, a witch can elevate a statement from a human to be red truth if they see fit. Iâll find text to back this up in a bit.
Since Natsuhi is Lambdadeltaâs piece, I think Lambda could take Natsuhiâs words and turn them red.
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As this also plays the red truth sound effect, I doubt itâs a slip-up. Well, I guess unless colored text was coded in a way that it always comes with the corresponding soundeffect, but for that weâd need to hack Umineko or something, and I donât have the knowhow for that and also kinda wanna solve stuff without doing such things.
Why is it that I am always the last poster when I wanna say something? Oh well.
So while our Territory Lord is unavailable, I took the liberty to compile the OST playlist that can usually be found in these topics myself. Like always, itâs in order of appearance. Also like always, related videos and comments probably have a high likelyhood to contain spoilers.
Thereâs something else music related I wanna talk about. And that is how just the music introduces us to Erika as the arrogant character that she is. You see, so far especially the more strings-based tracks were inspired by pieces of the late classical and romantic era, which can be seen in their simple nature and for others having a high emphasis on the emotion they are supposed to carry. Now the three main pieces Iâd associate with Erika in this episode however, Deep Blue Jeer, The Great Detective Knows, and Smile-less Soiree, are inspired by pieces of the baroque and early classical era. Especially baroque is a clear influence. Pieces of that era were often very ornamental, having lots of variations and decorations to the base melody. Furthermore, polyphonic pieces (so pieces where the melody can be in multiple voices, often at the same time) were often seen. In The Great Detective Knows, those decorations can be most easily heard, as there are many trills (quickly alternating between the base note and the one directly above it) in that piece. While one can argue if Deep Blue Jeer is truely polyphonic, the melody certainly jumps from one instrument to the next frequently. Smile-less Soiree has the least amount of ornaments and such, and as string quartetts are more of a thing from the classical period, Iâd probably see it more influenced by the early classical era. Now what is my point with all that? Well, by having this type of ornamental music for a mere human (many of the witch pieces (the organ tracks) were also baroque inspired), the music already informs the reader, either subconciously or through a similar analysis like I just did, that Erika is an arrogant character.
Thereâs something else that is interesting about Erika. When she first appears, sheâs built up as this little Miss Perfect, one would maybe even say that sheâs kind of a Mary Sue at first. But that facade quickly crumbles as soon as we see that she has absolutely no compassion, and she is quickly disliked by the entire family. But thatâs not what I wanted to talk about. No, what is interesting is that we can arguably show that she exhibited all 7 deadly sins without really showing any of the virtues that are opposite to those. So letâs take those in order, shall we?
- Pride:
Well, this is a no-brainer, pride and arrogance is basically the basis for her character. - Envy:
We see her envious when Battler presents his theory about how Kinzo could have disappeared from the study. - Wrath:
Both connected to this, but also later own, sheâs basically teeming with rage whenever her theories are debunked. - Sloth:
For all her harping about how this is a third-rate mystery, she still went for the easiest and most obvious solution to the mystery, not bothering to think of any other. So I think there we see her lazyness. - Greed:
It is outright stated that she got too greedy with her Natsuhi culprit theory after trying to tack on that Kinzo adultery stuff. - Hunger:
It is shown on multiple occasions that she is an attention whore, so hunger in this case is more a figurative thing. - Lust
This is probably the most far-fetched, but we could argue that her deciding to tack on such an adultery/sex scandal tale for blaming Natsuhi is a representation of that.
So yeah, thatâs interesting.
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First off, @VyseGolbez, your musical analysis is really excellent and I love it.
Second-off ⌠yeah, I agree, it seems unlikely to me that Natsuhiâs red truth is an authorial slip-up. Like @amenenee said, a witch can elevate a human statement to a red truth, which means I have to think about why a witch would do that.
Itâs increasingly likely to me that Battlerâs sin of six years ago involves making a promise to Shannon, and breaking it by not returning to the island after leaving the family register. This led to a great many deaths on the island ⌠This doesnât mean Shannon is the culprit, necessarily. But she might be involved with the culprit. We have this scene where the apparent culprit has knowledge only Shannon should have, and perhaps thatâs our clue.
I also wonder if I abandoned the Kanon=Shannon theory a little too readily. The number of people on the island is never confirmed in red, is it? As I recall, the purpose of the Kanon=Shannon theory is twofold: 1, it reduces the number of known humans on the island from 17 to 16, allowing room for an unknown person X. 2, it allows for Kanon to revive in previous gameboards, slipping around the red truth of his death.
The major obstacle for this theory is that, in this episode, Battler finally sees Kanon and Shannon together. This is (as far as I can remember) the first episode where that happens. Itâs as though the author is driving the final nail in that coffin. But if thereâs a person X, and Shannon is involved with them, could that person dress up as Kanon and fill his role for those scenes? And letâs not forget, this is also the first episode where Battler is shown to be an unreliable narrator. In his narration he saw Kinzo, too, but of course that never happened.
Augh ⌠I feel like Iâm thinking in circles. I definitely wonât stop thinking, but Iâm eager to see other peopleâs thoughts and theories.
EDIT: Okay, I thought of something else Kanon=Shannon might be able to help us with.
Before the family conference, Erika, George, Jessica, Maria, Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa left the mansion and moved to the guesthouse.
Of those who remain, only Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the second floor corridor, while all others were in the dining hall.
Lambdadelta could have said âKrauss, Natsuhi, and Genji were in the second floor, while Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva, Kanon, Shannon, and Battler were in the dining hall.â But she doesnât. And she sticks to that wording. She refers to the Krauss, Natushi, and Genji by name, but evades naming the people in the dining hall.
Krauss, Natsuhi and Genji did not even touch that letter!
Not a single person in the dining hallâŚno, thereâs a simpler way to say it. Among all those inside the mansion at 24:00, not a single person placed that letter in the corridor.
The ânot a single person in the dining hall ⌠no, thereâs a simpler way to say itâ is a direct response to Bern proposing that Kanon could have left the letter. And she doesnât deny it directly. Instead, she plays on the assumption that Kanon is in the dining hall. But what if he isnât?
She then changes the wording to âthose inside the mansion at 24:00â but that specificity could just be another evasion. Kanon could place the letter in the hall before 24:00, become âShannonâ to join the others in the dining hall, and not contradict the red truth. What do you think, everyone?
2ND EDIT: The riddle of the knock is trickier. If it was impossible for any character wihin the mansion to be the source of a knocking SOUND and also impossible for anyone outside the mansion to influence anything inside the mansion after the family conference began, then no one is left. You might be able to get around the second red truth if someone outside the mansion recorded a knock before the family conference and set it to play afterward, but Lambadelta makes it clear that no one misidentified a knocking sound and that a recording would be âthe sound of the tape with a knocking sound on itâ, and not a knocking sound.
Thereâs only one way I can think out of it, and itâs a desperate bid. Lambadelta uses the words âmisidentifyâ and âmistakeâ and âmisinterpret.â No one would mishear another sound as a knock. But she never denies that someone could pretend to hear a knock. And I believe itâs the suspicious pair âShannonâ and âKanonâ who reacted to the knock first. Perhaps one of them pretended to hear a knock, and the others humored them? And once the door was open, theyâd be too distracted by the letter and the ring to insist there wasnât a knock in the first place.
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Chopsticks.
Memes aside though, re-reading Episode 5 was an amazing experience. I knew it was good, but I didnât remember it being THIS good. Itâs easily the best Episode in all of Umineko up to this point imo. Guess we just need to wait and see if the following Episodes manage to top it or not?
On the music side, Iâve always been a big fan of proud-dust, but shoutouts to discolor. I have a whole new appreciation for that track now; feels like the new âMelodyâ for me. All of the new music really helps elevate Episode 5 the feeling of something new, something intimidating. The whole episode has a very big âFinal Battleâ feel to it, even Battler wasnât around for most of it. The gameboard is the most exciting yet (even if it lacks love), but the meta scenes with Battler are some of the most insightful to the overaching narrative in the whole story. I mean, look forward to more of that moving forward.
Not to say this episode was perfect, however. I take particular issue with how the Ura Tea Party panned out. In particular, it felt rushed. I get that they were trying to squeeze in a whole turnaround in the Ura to catch people who were thinking the game was settled off guard, but it ended up coming at a cost. The narrative surrounding Natsuhi was a big driving force of Episode 5, and while Battler comes to her rescue at the end here, her character and development are completely shafted. She gets like, one line thanking Battler, and thatâs it, done with that piece, off to the next fragment. Feels kinda shitty for Natsuhi. She doesnât even get the time under the spotlight to celebrate her redemption.
Another problem comes about during the battle between Battler and Dlanor. Out of nowhere, an argument starts up about Kinzoâs corpse, a corpse weâve never seen before in-game, thatâs just assumed to exist. Itâs exactly like two people debating the contents of a box we canât see. And then, again out of nowhere, Dlanor blocks the red truth. This really bugs me, because given all the rules we understand about this world, that shouldnât be valid. Battler is the Territory Lord, and Dlanor isnât even a witch. By what authority does Dlanor have the right to block the use of the red for Battler? And then the Gold Truth comes out⌠I wonât comment too much on this, but it kinda bugs me how this is presented.
How do you guys feel about the Gold Truth?
This whole scene feels like it wouldâve benefited so much more if we actually got to see more of the gameboard. More of Natsuhi being defended by Battler, maybe Natsuhi admitting to Kinzoâs death and showing them the corpse, and make it a human argument rather than a witch one. I feel like I wouldâve appreciated that a lot more than what we got.
But⌠I wonât deny what we got was hype AF. Itâs like the closer we get to the truth, the more the debates represent DBZ fights.
So yeah, apart from those little concerns, Iâd probably give this Episode a 10/10. I distinctly remember coming out of it in 2009 thinking it was one of the best things Iâve ever read, and today I canât help but feel similarly.
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Youâre right, that is slightly problematic. Right now I have no real clue what the Gold Truth represents, and the blocking of the red truth feels to me as a plot device just to introduce the gold truth.
In retrospect, your critic on Natsuhiâs character closure is true as well, I agree there. Itâs still a pretty damn great episode.
@mimsy Re:Kanon=Shannon stuff: Did you forget a red truth from episode 4, darling? No one else can go by Kanonâs name! A different person canât claim that as their name! How do you plan to work around this? Since youâre now basically saying that both Shannon and person X were Kanon at some point, if I understand you correctly.
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Hearing Vyse say âdarlingâ is extremely out-of-character 
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Let me know what you guys think of the cast so far~ any new or changed favorites?
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Shannon using Kanonâs name isnât a problem at all. Iâll say it in blue. âKanonâ only exists through Shannon using the name âKanon.â Therefore, when Shannon goes by âKanon,â she is not a different person claiming that name, but the nameâs only possible bearer, the servant known as Kanon.
The witches show their hand a little too eagerly in their ruthless pursuit of Natsuhi. They show how the red truth can be manipulated and distorted through petty word tricks. Thatâs how they can claim Kinzo couldnât exist anywhere except for in Natsuhiâs bed, and keep the red truth â because Kinzo doesnât exist anywhere. âNo one else can go by Kanonâs nameâ is just a word trick.
Person X pretending to be Kanon is much harder to justify. However, person X could pretend to be Shannon with no problems.
Regarding the gold truth ⌠My impression of it is that itâs the trust between the Game Master and their opponent, or between the author and the reader. Hence why Battler says âI guaranteeâ and Dlanor accepts it. This could be stronger than red truth, which is sometimes misleading, but it could also be weaker.
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I donât really think I understand the gold truth right now.
I agree on Natsuhiâs shafted development.
However, as someone who doesnât hold this one as high as some of the others, I thought the latter tea party was one of the high points of the episode.
Well this episode was certainly fun to read. Itâs was a long wait but it was completely worth it. This episode focused on some of my favorite aspects of Umineko up to this point and explored them in ways that satisfied me. Battler and Beatriceâs relationship was interested me since Episode 3, and I think it was made even more interesting since a lot of their interactions this episode wasnât actually them. The distinction between the âpieceâ versions of characters and the real ones were confusing to me at times, but I feel that added to the excitement of reading it.
The discussion of truth was a big part of this episode. I felt quite bad for Natsuhi when the red truth destroyed her teatime with Beatrice, perhaps an odd reaction seeing as the point of the story is to prove Beatrice didnât exist on Rokkenjima. Well, I guess thatâs not precisely it. Battler and Beatriceâs relationship is quite complex, as they have a mutual respect for each other thatâs even clearer in this episode than previous one. Especially now that Battler has gained his new title, the narrowness of what Battler is trying to disprove is interesting to me. Iâm excited to see how Battler acts in the next episode.
This episode was quite rich in things to ponder, while at the same time being super fun to read. I think Iâll have to think a little longer before putting forth any theories myself though.
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