Umineko Episode 7 Full Series Spoilers General

07th Discussion
#30

The EP8 manga shows that only Kyrie’s gun had the two blanks in it: https://youtu.be/C1jJH4G3N1c?list=PLSKRyR03ySCQBD8b4PTPbeCRqsvfXXg66. Though its possible this was changed in EP7.

It appears that you’re right about this fact. Though I think trying to aim at someone’s head and the bullet shooting at their torso is more noticeable than a wall. Or maybe Rudolf wanted a challenge or whatever. Regardless, the EP8 manga doesn’t show if Rudolf and Eva’s confrontation was the same.

Kyrie isn’t a nice person

#31

See imagine if EP 8 was twisted optimistic logic like this, and wasn’t just sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalalalala.

EP 8 could have been so much more.

Oh, look. I haven’t talked about why EP 7 is the best episode. I should go do that.

brb, going to the other thread.

#32

I really advise you reading the manga version of episode 8. It improves a lot on the story and actually adds a few sections that leads to a more satisfying conclusion.

#33

I am not watching a 20 minute video for one little detail.

So, going merely from what you’ve said: I am sorry but that explanation seems pretty shoddy then, if the manga EP8 version is the same in its events as EP7 TP. Mind giving a clear context as to why her gun had two blanks for the third and fourth shot?

The first two shots of her gun were no blanks (Rosa, Hideyoshi), then two blanks (Eva, Yasu), then no blank (Gohda; Rudolf did not kill him, otherwise he wouldn’t have had to kill George to show his commitment to the entire massacre; no hint of another weapon). How convenient.

I could’ve accepted blanks if an entire gun had only blanks in it (precedent: see EP1 and 2, the gun Natsuhi and Rosa had). This would also allow for a cleaner interpretation of why 556 is dead - a gun with only blanks is kinda “dead”. Just doesn’t work here. I could’ve accepted it if all guns had two blanks as a safety measure (not possible, the guns Eva and Rudolf held both fired 3 and 4 times without a problem) in case the murder game got out of hand.

I could’ve accepted notions of how Kyrie and Rudolf aren’t actually that good with guns, with the future public merely assuming it due to their background. And I presented a half-serious theory that went the other way of saying “maybe Kyrie didn’t want to kill those two”.

But conveniently Kyrie’s third and fourth shot were blanks. Not the first two, not the fifth. Oh maybe the sixth (Eva 2) was a blank too, clearly, whatever the plot of EP7 demands.

Has it been officially released yet in english? No.

#34

I’m actually enjoying this little discussion of ours, heh. Anyway…

As for the gun blanks, Kyrie obviously reloaded her gun as there was only one (real) bullet left in the chamber. The evidence for this can be found here, in the 34:28 to 34:47 mark- https://youtu.be/h79dVlKia1w. After that, she and Rudolf went on their merry way, murdering everyone. And what do you mean by Gohda? Only the adults were in the VIP room.

I’m pretty sure that the video I sent you has a time stamp to the explanation on it. If it’s unclear, then you can find it at the 0:53 to 1:14 mark-https://youtu.be/C1jJH4G3N1c?t=53s.
As for why that particular gun had blanks in its third and fourth rounds…the obivousanswerisplotarmor- I mean, well it was likely just part of one of Sayo’s elaborate murder plans. Perhaps she was planning to use that gun for something interesting. I’m not exactly sure if I can get a reference for two gun blanks, but maybe they can be found in ‘Our Confession’ or something. Maybe she would switch her gun up with someone else’s after the 1st and 2nd rounds were used and then go and grab it back after the 4th round.

I agree that we should all probably wait till Yen Press releases the official Umineko Ep8

#35

Gohda was killed in the mansion by Kyrie, just before they called the cousins. Given that his face had been covered with a bloodied newspaper, and that no other weapon had been introduced so far (knives come later), I can only assume that he got shot. That’s the fifth shot from Kyrie. I suppose she got lucky and grabbed some real bullets for the next round.

Don’t think the trick is used there. Technically I could say no, judging by EP1 and 2 it seemed she favored the whole “let one adult live and give that person a gun fully loaded with blanks” approach. But who can say, if in doubt she might’ve added some new variations to the mix. I suppose we could also try to explain it with ongoing preparations.

You didn’t as far as I can tell, and thanks.

Eh, oh well. The synopsis I’ve read of the EP8 manga (see haguruma on animesuki) otherwise sounded very promising but I guess I now know why I decided to just block out the entire blank business. I guess you could say … where are my sunglasses? It left a BLANK. YEEE- okay fine.

#36

I think you’re misunderstanding something. Kyrie reloaded in the VIP room after the bloodbath was done with. When she and Rudolf left the VIP room, every single bullet in her gun is real. Before she reloaded the blanks existed, and when she left the VIP room, no blanks of any sort existed within Kyrie’s gun. (Sorry for the repetition, just want to make sure that you understand). And the manga also shows her physically grabbing bullets and putting them into her pocket.

Well, Sayo is a fickle person. And its not like she wrote EP1 and 2 the day before (she wrote those months in advance). Its more than likely she thought up of a completely new scenario. She doesn’t have to follow the ones she wrote before-that goes against what we know about her whimsical personality.

#37

For my next trick I shall answer merely quoting myself.

Although, was it said for how long she knew that Battler would return?

On regads to Ange which is a similiar issue: why is she not in the original stories despite merely getting sick shortly before the family meetup? Personally I assume that Ange wasn’t included due to the fallout of Mariage Sorcerie (… sp?) in the year before (see EP4). From Yasu’s/Maria’s viewpoint Ange wasn’t invited to the Golden Land.

#38

Oh, so you did get what I wrote, sorry. (Though its not really luck if Sayo told them about the bullets…)

I think Natsuhi told her during 1985, and then she had a giant mental breakdown.

I think its just because Ange is generally unimportant to Sayo. They didn’t appear to really have much of a relationship, unlike Maria and Beato.

#39

After mulling a bit about the whole blank affair. Although I still don’t particularly care for it, one thing is kinda interesting. Ultimately Yasu’s plans for killing people … ended up saving herself (and by extension Battler, kinda) and Eva. So, although it didn’t extend her personal lifespan that much, the decision to do something (as gruesome as it might’ve been, whatever she exactly wanted to put in motion) allowed her to have a final talk with Battler.

And by saving Battler she allowed a possible future where Ange may or may not have finally met Tohya many years later.

Of course, without those plans nothing might’ve happened either, although the parlor scene of Lion seems to suggest otherwise.

Really? Huh. Interesting.

I’d like to continue that point of discussion at some time since it has been discussed a lot on animesuki. Would like to see what the people here make out of it. Might be better placed in EP4 or General Discussion though.

#40

In the opening scene of EP7, when the Inquisitors of Heresy are trying to arrest the maid, Will gives out the red truth [color=red]“It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit!”[/color]

Given that this Episode involves Beatrice’s funeral, wouldn’t it be logical to say as a persona, she’s been discarded? And that the only one who could discard that persona is Yasu herself, who happens to be a servant?

Perhaps I’m just misinterpreting something. Anyone care to explain?

#41

Sorry, but I didn’t manage to understand what your message is here. Are you saying that Beatrice has been removed from the gameboard or something?

#42

I don’t know if I could say she’s been removed from the gameboard per se, but the funeral scene in the chapel is dedicated to her, isn’t it? I just am curious as to whether I am misinterpreting this entire event (the funeral of Beatrice and who could have killed her), or if I am not thinking properly about these things.

#43

I think it would be easier if you just laid out your interpretation of the scene and the implications prior to discussion.

#44

Well, for starters Umineko tends to dodge the question whether van Dine even applies to it. We see Willard only using a tiny selection of them within the story, which at least lets me assume that only those apply. One of them may be that the culprit can’t be a servant, but Umineko then manages to dodge that one by making Yasu the secret family head. She isn’t a servant per se anymore, she just play-acts as two of them.

Then again, was that your question? I’m not quite sure, admittedly, since it seems you want to know who killed Beatrice in the context of the funeral. Here I thought it was Lion, because just by existing, he ensures that Beatrice would not be born. Maybe I could be wrong here, I’m not totally certain anymore how things were framed, but that’s my safest guess at the moment without looking into the text again.

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#45

In the context of episode 7, Beatrice was “killed” by Lion.
If Lion exists, Beatrice cannot exist and vice-versa. It don’t think there’s much else to it.

And as Dschehuti already stated, Sayo manages to bypass the red by being the family head (assuming it applies to Umineko in the first place).

#46

Well Ryukishi put that red here for a reason, and I believe it to be exactly that. To reinforce that Sayo is not really a servant but actually the family head.

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#47

So I got EP7 manga finally!
I was interested how they’ll phrase stuff to keep Lion gender neutral, and they did quite well!

However!!
Long ago, when the debate about Lion’s gender was still on, one of the points brought up as an argument was Will once calling him “bocchan” (‘young master’ used for boys in Japanese).
While Lion’s gender is kept neutral in the manga, this part is like this:

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While the me from that time feels an inner victory, I do have to admit it’s weird they worked so hard to keep Lion gender neutral and this one slipped up like this. It could easly be phrased as “rich kid” instead of “rich boy” and it would have the same effect, so I’m pretty surprised Yenpress translated it this way.

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#48

I somehow didn’t notice this at the time, but given the other night, a reply feels appropriate~

It might be kinda crass for me to say this, but to be honest, while I do love the manga (particularly Ep8, and little things like the “discord” scene in Kinzo’s study in Ep1), I’m not too fond of some of the translation/localization differences Yen Press made with it. Spelling differences - Kinzou, Gouda, Nanjou - using “night” instead of “twilight” in the epitaph (though other than that, I like most of the manga’s epitaph translation), “Westernizing” some of the dialogue (replacing Battler and Ange’s corny Engrish with French in a few places, names being presented in the Western order of given name first - Sayaka Ohara’s loud screams of “USHIROMIYA BATORA” are absolutely iconic to me)… I’m not saying it’s bad, mind - I just prefer the angle that Witch Hunt/Mangagamer took with the VN translations.

Though then there’s this, from Ep6:

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Which… Yeah. Oops. :blushing:

More on-topic! I just finished reading through Ep7 yesterday (going to start the Tea Parties soon). I don’t have a lot to say about it right now (still need to get a lot of my thoughts in order), but I will say this:

Good grief, do I ever feel like an idiot rereading it. So many of the questions I was stumbling over on my first read-through (who Yasu “is”, the “17 people” thing and how that could work, what to make of Shannon and Kanon being practically joined at the hip, etc.) are pretty explicitly answered. I dunno how I managed to somehow miss all that until partway through Ep8, hah.

At the very least, I suppose I can take solace in knowing that my “theory” at the time (Kanon being Beatrice, with Shannon as an accomplice) wasn’t that far off the mark. :sweating:

Just to add a bit more substance to this post, even though it’s something I’d like to discuss in the podcast and already asked on Discord - during Clair’s story, when she’s lamenting the fact that Battler ended up returning in 1986, we get this bit of narration, after Will comments that the incident “might not have occurred” if Battler came back just a year earlier or later:

I expressed on Discord that, as uncomfortable as I find it to think about (and I doubt I’m the only one), I suspect the “small incident” would’ve been Sayo committing suicide in some manner - likely drowning herself, so she wouldn’t leave a body behind. Having said that, the Ep8 manga does seem to contradict that (some of Sayo’s internal monologue in Confession suggests that she was going to come clean to George in 1986), but I’m not really sure what else to make of it.

I’m wondering - what do other people think this “incident” might’ve been?

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#49

I always assumed she meant Kanon and Beato’s “deaths” (Or Kanon and Shannon’s deaths), in order to truly become Ushiromiya Sayo and Jooji’s wife. We already know there was a “duel” and Kanon was going to disappear, but then Battler came back.

I feel like Yasu committing suicide after Jooji had accepted her would defeat the point of the story.