Umineko Episode 7 Full Series Spoilers General

[Dschehuti]

@amenenee

In the opening scene of EP7, when the Inquisitors of Heresy are trying to arrest the maid, Will gives out the red truth “It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit!”

Given that this Episode involves Beatrice’s funeral, wouldn’t it be logical to say as a persona, she’s been discarded? And that the only one who could discard that persona is Yasu herself, who happens to be a servant?

Perhaps I’m just misinterpreting something. Anyone care to explain?

Well, for starters Umineko tends to dodge the question whether van Dine even applies to it. We see Willard only using a tiny selection of them within the story, which at least lets me assume that only those apply. One of them may be that the culprit can’t be a servant, but Umineko then manages to dodge that one by making Yasu the secret family head. She isn’t a servant per se anymore, she just play-acts as two of them.

Then again, was that your question? I’m not quite sure, admittedly, since it seems you want to know who killed Beatrice in the context of the funeral. Here I thought it was Lion, because just by existing, he ensures that Beatrice would not be born. Maybe I could be wrong here, I’m not totally certain anymore how things were framed, but that’s my safest guess at the moment without looking into the text again.

[Ushiromiya_Battler]

In the context of episode 7, Beatrice was “killed” by Lion.
If Lion exists, Beatrice cannot exist and vice-versa. It don’t think there’s much else to it.

And as Dschehuti already stated, Sayo manages to bypass the red by being the family head (assuming it applies to Umineko in the first place).

[Karifean]

@Ushiromiya_Battler

And as Dschehuti already stated, Sayo manages to bypass the red by being the family head (assuming it applies to Umineko in the first place).

Well Ryukishi put that red here for a reason, and I believe it to be exactly that. To reinforce that Sayo is not really a servant but actually the family head.

[UmiNetta]

So I got EP7 manga finally!
I was interested how they’ll phrase stuff to keep Lion gender neutral, and they did quite well!

However!!
Long ago, when the debate about Lion’s gender was still on, one of the points brought up as an argument was Will once calling him “bocchan” (‘young master’ used for boys in Japanese).
While Lion’s gender is kept neutral in the manga, this part is like this:

While the me from that time feels an inner victory, I do have to admit it’s weird they worked so hard to keep Lion gender neutral and this one slipped up like this. It could easly be phrased as “rich kid” instead of “rich boy” and it would have the same effect, so I’m pretty surprised Yenpress translated it this way.

[KyuuGryphon]

I somehow didn’t notice this at the time, but given the other night, a reply feels appropriate~

It might be kinda crass for me to say this, but to be honest, while I do love the manga (particularly Ep8, and little things like the “discord” scene in Kinzo’s study in Ep1), I’m not too fond of some of the translation/localization differences Yen Press made with it. Spelling differences - Kinzou, Gouda, Nanjou - using “night” instead of “twilight” in the epitaph (though other than that, I like most of the manga’s epitaph translation), “Westernizing” some of the dialogue (replacing Battler and Ange’s corny Engrish with French in a few places, names being presented in the Western order of given name first - Sayaka Ohara’s loud screams of “USHIROMIYA BATORA” are absolutely iconic to me)… I’m not saying it’s bad, mind - I just prefer the angle that Witch Hunt/Mangagamer took with the VN translations.

Though then there’s this, from Ep6:

Which… Yeah. Oops.

More on-topic! I just finished reading through Ep7 yesterday (going to start the Tea Parties soon). I don’t have a lot to say about it right now (still need to get a lot of my thoughts in order), but I will say this:

Good grief, do I ever feel like an idiot rereading it. So many of the questions I was stumbling over on my first read-through (who Yasu “is”, the “17 people” thing and how that could work, what to make of Shannon and Kanon being practically joined at the hip, etc.) are pretty explicitly answered. I dunno how I managed to somehow miss all that until partway through Ep8, hah.

At the very least, I suppose I can take solace in knowing that my “theory” at the time (Kanon being Beatrice, with Shannon as an accomplice) wasn’t that far off the mark.

Just to add a bit more substance to this post, even though it’s something I’d like to discuss in the podcast and already asked on Discord - during Clair’s story, when she’s lamenting the fact that Battler ended up returning in 1986, we get this bit of narration, after Will comments that the incident “might not have occurred” if Battler came back just a year earlier or later:

I expressed on Discord that, as uncomfortable as I find it to think about (and I doubt I’m the only one), I suspect the “small incident” would’ve been Sayo committing suicide in some manner - likely drowning herself, so she wouldn’t leave a body behind. Having said that, the Ep8 manga does seem to contradict that (some of Sayo’s internal monologue in Confession suggests that she was going to come clean to George in 1986), but I’m not really sure what else to make of it.

I’m wondering - what do other people think this “incident” might’ve been?

[Jin_Uzuki]

@KyuuGryphon

I’m wondering - what do other people think this “incident” might’ve been?

I always assumed she meant Kanon and Beato’s “deaths” (Or Kanon and Shannon’s deaths), in order to truly become Ushiromiya Sayo and Jooji’s wife. We already know there was a “duel” and Kanon was going to disappear, but then Battler came back.

I feel like Yasu committing suicide after Jooji had accepted her would defeat the point of the story.