You decide to go against our suggestions, even after you agreed? If that isn’t a highly suspicious move I don’t know what is. Not only are you even more likely to be radical now. Now I have reason to be also suspicious of CJ without him doing anything. Why would you want to go against the term you agreed on?
The only reason would be: There wasn’t a candidate to your liking in our suggestions. If you are indeed radical, of course you know exactly who you want to become chancellor and who not.
Since Aspirety stepped down from nominating, the only given suggestions were DaBackpack from you, and CJ’s self-nomination. So I did take one of your suggestions. I had already thought about nominating CJ anyway, as I mentioned before.
Like Yerian mentioned, all the trust issues were just wasting time. That’s why I went ahead and made my official nomination. DaBackpack is already trustworthy, sure, but it will be good to open up the playing field for more people and see where they stand on the trustability scale.
If you have some specific problem with CJ then sure, explain. Vote No. Whatever makes you feel better about this.
Well, at least it’s progress.
The issue with this plan was that I had too much faith that people would play cautiously. In the interests of pushing a progressive policy, the ideal plan would be to have one of the three who’ve pushed for a progressive policy (excluding myself due to controversy) decide on a chancellor amongst themselves. However, there was a lot more dispute over this than I anticipated. True, maybe some just don’t agree, but I can’t help but think that discord is due to the fact that there are wolves amongst us trying to swing the situation over to their own agenda.
CJ is not one of those trusted three, and he also voted for himself, so I don’t trust him to push a progressive policy forward. And just considering the high likelihood that Rabla himself is extremist, it would certainly be a waste if the Investigation ability was used by someone we know we can’t trust.
For these reasons, I’ll be voting NO for CJ. Sorry buddy, but I don’t trust you enough in this delicate situation. Only Yerian, DaBackpack and Necem have any amount of my trust yet. I doubt I’ll get the majority for the vote, but I hope the progressives among our group will consider this carefully. Don’t throw this turn away to the Extremists. They are amongst us.
Suggesting yourself and being suggested by someone else are entirely different things. Also, CJ is in no position that anyone could trust him. If your government enacts a radical policy, we would have to assume that it was your fault since you are more suspicious than CJ at this point. We cannot trust your words. This wouldn’t give us any good information about CJ.
On the other hand, If CJ gets elected chancellor with a president we have no info on or we know we can somewhat trust them, we would gain much more useful information based one the policy that is chosen.
And like aspirety said, if a radical policy is played, you get the right to investigate someone. And that would be completely wasted.
It’s not CJ’s fault but I vote NO.
Just for future record, you don’t need to wait on me making this post to send your votes in. As soon as the president makes a post nominating a chancellor feel free to send a PM my way.
But to make this official…
Voting Phase
@Yerian@EisenKoubu@Aspirety@Rabla@Pepe@DaBackpack@cjlim2007@Sapphire@Necem
Since our presidential candidates has chosen a chancellor, it’s time for everyone to vote.
President: Rabla
Chancellor: cjlim2007
Do you trust these two to represent you and the entire village of Hinamizawa and enact a policy on your behalf? Please PM your votes directly to me.
All this talk makes me realize that, yeah, cj hasn’t participated in any of the policy process yet. I initially thought of sapphire with my nomination, but totally ignored that fact about cj.
As I see practically everyone else at an equal trust level (yes that includes everyone who had made policies thus far), I can accept rabla’s proposition to nominate cj for the sole fact of getting information.
See, let’s assume that cj is elected into the position of chancellor. Rabla is currently suspect of being a radical, whereas cj is currently neutral.
If a progressive policy is enabled, then that heavily implies that cj is progressive; either rabla tried to sabotage him and failed (because of a bad draw), or rabla is also progressive and helped cj go towards that decision.
If a radical policy is enabled, then either rabla sabotaged him (which has a believable probability of happening), or cj enacted him. This is where it gets iffy, of course, and we’d have to rely on testimony somehow to get anything out of it.
In summary, my main motive now is to gain information. I believe that, logically, none of our options would give us any more information about rabla’s allegiance. However, by enacting someone who has not yet participated, we allow ourselves to gain insight on the possibility of the chancellor being a progressive. Through this match, we will be able to get an idea on cj’s allegiance.
If we had enacted someone who already participated, and they enacted another progressive policy, that wouldn’t really change our view of that person’s allegiance. Maybe it would strengthen our opinion about them being a progressive, but none of that would ever lie in the realm of certainty.
Thus, don’t be surprised in me voting YES during this round. If there’s anything off with my logic here, feel free to discuss!
I understand what you’re saying, but it’s a weak argument.
The chance of a progressive policy passing is significantly low. Firstly, the chance that Rabla is a radical is already higher than 50%, maybe closer to 75%. If he is a radical, then chances are he knowingly picked CJ as his chancellor because he knows that CJ, too, is a radical. That means the odds of him being progressive are somewhere around 75%. (I know I’m oversimplifying probability but work with me)
But even ignoring that, if CJ is in fact progressive, as long as Rabla is an extremist, the chances of him pushing forward a progressive policy are noticeably slim. Rabla would need to draw 2 progressive policies, which is quite improbable. Sure, Rabla may be progressive, but then the chances of CJ being extremist become 50/50. Total it all together and the chances of a progressive victory are very slim.
With that in mind, you say your goal is to gain information. But know that if Rabla is an extremist, then we’re giving up our Investigation ability on him! That ability is extremely valuable to gain information, maybe the most useful tool of all, and you’d throw it away on this turn without a second thought. There will be more turns to get dirt on each other, but this is the last investigation opportunity Despite seeking information, you’d throw away this chance. I can’t help but feel like this flawed logic makes you suspicious yourself, like you want the progressives to lose that investigation.
Well, going with that logic, then that means we simply cannot trust anybody that Rabla or Eisen picks in the future. You’re essentially assuming that anybody that rabla picks is suspicious by default (which even includes yerian and dabackpack), despite there being numerous other reasons for a radical to choose to pick a progressive partner. Framing other players, or wiping his own innocence. This game isn’t that simple, and thinking that cj is suspicious simply because rabla chose him is a bit of a hasty generalization.
It’s not that low… I tried recalculating with the original pool of 11 radical policies and 6 progressive ones (since I’m not counting what policies have been drawn so far), and the probability of pulling at least 2 progressive policies is about 27%. The chances of all policies drawn being radical, on the other hand, are at 24%. Let’s ride on your assumption that Rabla is at 75% probability of being a radical (though I personally think it lies more on around 60%). So the chances of cj getting a progressive policy would be P(rabla being radical)P(2 progressive policies coming out) + P(rabla being progressive)P(1 progressive policy coming out) = .75.27+.25.76 (inverse of all radical) = 39%. It’s definitely not 50-50 but it’s a sizable amount, that I think is worth using as a basis to judge cj. And, for the reasons above, I can’t assume as quickly that cj is at 75% chance being radical.
Of course this is all inaccurate, since we’ve gone through 3 rounds already, but considering a totally random system, the end result shouldn’t be all that different… right? That and, as yerian said, just because they’re radical/progressive doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll always act towards their own alignment.
Frankly, I think the investigation ability is only ever useful for the president, because anyone can lie 
We saw just how “useful” it was with the last time, didn’t we?
So I really don’t see the usefulness of the investigation ability.
Well, the probabilities definitely aren’t as high as I originally thought them to be, but they don’t seem to be that low either. The reason why I asked for discussion is so that I can ask people to point out my own flaws in the chance that I’m simply just an idiot (which, mind you, is also pretty high!)
The value of Eisen’s investigation has yet to be determined. A Rabla investigation is pretty much a write off.
The vote has concluded! Here are the results:
With 5 votes for and 4 against, the vote goes through! Just barely, too!
Government Phase
Our new government has once again the obligation of leading Hinamizawa. But whose interests will they really represent…? Was trusting Rabla and cjlim2007 the right choice… or the dreadfully wrong one? Only the results will tell.
Rabla and cjlim2007, you two may not post in this topic until the government phase has concluded.
Well uhh… I explained why I voted YES, but I personally wasn’t expecting this to push through, what with the amount of antagonism towards this government…
Yerian and DaBackpack voting Rabla is a bit surprising, but perhaps they have their own reasons… But @EisenKoubu voting Rabla??? I thought he betrayed you last round? Why are you voting someone who betrayed you?
…did he really betray you?
He did. I’m not so much voting Rabla for president as I am CJ for chancellor.
Dammit @EisenKoubu, I wanted to trust you of all people…
In fact, I can no longer trust anybody except @Necem 
I understand that it’s definitely possible I’m just giving the radicals a free policy, but I have no reason to distrust CJ yet. People are innocent until they are proven guilty, and it’s very hard to tell who exactly is guilty unless I have the right information. Rabla being president is not enough for me to say NO to his government. If CJ as chancellor passes a radical policy, then I will have reason to suspect him. Until then, I will trust him the same way I trusted Rabla before the first radical policy was passed.
@Yerian@EisenKoubu@Aspirety@Rabla@Pepe@DaBackpack@cjlim2007@Sapphire@Necem
Gather round, members of the council! The government has made their choice, a new policy has been enacted!
“Lolis will be granted the right to free self-defense classes.”
Whether or not it is the right step to secure the safety of lolis, it’s definitely a progressive policy.
Radical policies played: 1
Progressive policies played: 3
Next presidential privilege unlocked by radical policy: Investigation
Previous government: Rabla and cjlim2007
Election Phase
@Pepe, you are the current presidential candidate, please nominate a chancellor. Do note that Rabla and cjlim2007 cannot be nominated as chancellors since they were part of the previous government. Feel free to take your time and discuss the results of the previous government phase with your fellow council members, but once you’ve made up your mind regarding a chancellor, please state their name in bold. We will then start the voting.
Wait. How is it that I just noticed there were 9 people in this game and not 10…
You wrote the wrong names in the last paragraph =o
Shh, nobody saw that.
What the fuuuuuck…
…heheh.
HAHAHAHA!
<Very good>!! Either I’ve been completely wrong about everyone, or the extremists are conspiring to make me look like a villain! Very well. I accept your challenge.
Continue the game!