Gonna hijack this question. I believe that Fragment means universe.
At the end in Kinzo’s study. Our running theory, as mimsy mentioned is Battler being unconscious on the floor during this scene, possibly in an alcohol induced coma.
That won’t do! Provide evidence from the text to support your claim.
Examples off the top of my head:
Bernkastel speaks of finding a happy fragment for Ange, Bern and Lambda come from different fragments. Lambda once trapped Bern in a fragment and forced her to play a game.
Then what about Maria’s description of Fragments in this Episode?
Ummmmm… uh, I can’t remember those scenes. HAH! The Maria that Ange spoke to was merely part of Ange’s delusions, I can discard anything she says if it contradicts my understanding of the word.
Ignores 1/3 of Episode 4
Hopes to understand Umineko
Have fun!
I just can’t remember for now. Give me a break…
Naive child! I’ll never-
I should probably go to bed.
What does Maria say about Fragments? I can’t seem to find it flipping through the visual novel and the manga at random, heh …
Well, I can say the discussion that made the metaphysics of Umineko ‘click’ for me was when Virgilia and Battler talked about Braun tubes and gremlins and the Schrodinger’s cat paradox. There were two competing possibilities, and until the the TV set or box was opened, those possibilities could be said to exist simultaneously. The same goes for Rokkenjima. It seems like a magical space, but that’s because the magic possibilities and the mundane possibilities exist there simultaneously – until the seagulls cry, and the truth can be determined. That’s the world of October 4-5, 1986, closed off by the typhoon. (Of course, the entire arc of Ange’s mission in 1998 shows that box still hasn’t been ‘opened,’ so to speak.)
Fragments are … related, perhaps? It says in the TIPS that Bernkastel is a ‘Voyager’ witch who can ‘cross the sea of Fragments.’ Lambadelta is one of these, too, but most witches can only freely use their power within their own Fragment. Then there’s a section ‘On Voyager Witches’ … I’ll just share the text in full …
’
According to this, Fragments are ‘worlds of different fates and circumstances.’ It seems to me like they’re possible worlds – worlds where TV sets are full of Braun tubes, worlds where TV sets are full of gremlins – but from the way Bernkastel talks about them, they’re also worlds influenced by probability. If there are infinite possibilities, it stands to reason there are infinite Fragments where Ange’s family returns to her, but Bernkastel can’t even find one. That could be because the probability for it is very low.
The ‘different fates’ part of it is interesting because I think becoming a witch has something to do with defying fate. Lambadelta approves of witches, like Eva, who change their fate with determination and certainty. Bernkastel only approves of witches who overcome the odds and change their fate through a miracle. Eva doesn’t impress her. But the most important thing we learn about witches in this episode, I think, is that they’re born of human emotions – love, hatred, anger, joy. Black witches push their negative emotions on to others, white witches take on negative emotions and transform them into positive emotions. They’re like motive forces. Whether Umineko is a mystery or fantasy, motive is going to be important.
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But we should all keep in mind that that this info comes from what could be Ange’s magical delusions, and may have no effect on the rules of the Metaworld.
If you think Ange is delusional. If you have love, though …
If we are rejecting the existence of magic (outside of the Meta), then we have to conclude that Ange’s story is a tragic tale of a realist gradually losing her grip on reality due to the stressful circumstances she was placed in.
Saying Ange’s story happened as it was shown to us is a victory condition for Magic, just like the end of Episode 2. Just because it doesn’t affect Battler’s game doesn’t mean it isn’t important for ours.
Oh, I certainly don’t think everything happened just as it was shown. But I don’t think Ange has lost her grip on reality, either. I think those two facts can exist simultaneously.
Kihihihi. I’m curious. Do you have a theory about what happened in Rokkenjima of 1998? Do you think Ange survived that encounter on the cliff? I have a theory, and I’d be happy to share it.
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The merc guy knew something was up and got into an appropriate sniping position. Everything Ange saw the stakes do was his shots.
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Oh, good! I’m glad we’re thinking alike. Despite being ordered to stay on the shore, Amukasa followed Ange in stealth, and when he saw she was in danger, he sniped Kasumi’s men using the weapons he had prepared.
But here’s my further supposition. Ange knew he was taking those shots. She called out, as though she was calling to the seven sisters, in a way that he would be able to hear, and that would confuse and frighten her attackers. She told him who to shoot, and how. She helped him save her life. This was her ‘magic.’
And she did this despite the fact that she had no reason to believe he was there … unless she was looking with ‘love.’ Ange had been a mistrustful person, and believed no one could protect her but herself. When Tetsurou gave her an escape, she went her own way, because she couldn’t rule out the possibility he had betrayed her and thus acted as though he had already betrayed her. When she was lying on the ground, she was cursing herself for ordering Amukasa to stay on the shore. But she realized that Amukasa cared about her as a person as much as he wanted to be paid for this job, and that even against orders, he would have followed her and kept her safe. So she stood up and trusted he was there. The ‘seven sisters’ were just a representation of Ange finally believing she had friends who could save her.
So in this moment, Ange was not delusional or tragic at all. She was insightful and powerful. Even though we have the same theory, from the same evidence, we have different conclusions about them.
And since I look on Ange with love, I believe her insights about witches are important to the story overall. They may not be a mystical insight imparted from the Meta world by magical means x – which would be a loss for us – but they mean something.
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That’s just my view on things, but ultimately I think these scenes with ange about white witches and black witches are very insightful to ryuukishi’s overall vision of things. This sort of idea seems to find it’s place in all of his work. It’s what I came to call the “chain of hatred”.
Assuming I’m grasping this right, the entire point of this is to understand how a troubled person can then wreck the life of another troubled person, who then continues the cycle by doing the same thing themselves to someone else. This is perhaps most clear in the rather crappy life we’re told Rosa to have that made her into what she is, and now how it makes Maria suffer.
This “chain of hatred”, in my understanding, is the black witch. In those very scenes the way Ange approach Kasumi is very much that.
In contrast she presents the view of the “white witches” who are those that are able to overturn this, bring an end to the chain of hatred.
Not to confuse, if I grasp this right, with a full forgiving attitude. If I view this correctly Ange basically came to understand Kasumi’s suffering heart, but essentially views her as a lost cause, a monster that was created by this chain of hatred, and now has to be put down. However she reached the point of being able to view this as a tragedy rather then simply view her with hatred.
In that sense, the person whom Ange is really saving is primarily her own self, preventing herself from becoming a dark witch herself.
That is my view of this in the end.
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I support your interpretation, @UsagiTenpura!
If we look at this like a mystery, I think ‘the chain of hatred’ will be important to understanding the culprit’s motives and what led them to commit these brutal murders. We’ll have to look at them and understand them the way Ange understood Kasumi. We’ll have to see the ‘black witch’ driving them.
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What reason do you have to claim this?
Seems to me like you kind of gave it away. Okay, new theory on Kakeras. Kakeras are “worlds.” But by world I mean individual worlds for individual people. In my Kakera, I see myself typing this theory in a dark room on a laptop. In one of your Kakeras, you can imagine me in a brightly lit room typing this on a desktop. Kakeras are individual perceptions of the world around us.
Maria’s diary from what @Aspirety is saying is her own Kakera. It contains her memories and her feelings, so she poured out the contents of her kakera onto the pages. Everything in that book is of her kakera, and her kakera alone. Sakutarou is alive because in her kakera she believed he was alive. After Sakutarou “died” only Ange herself is able to see Sakutarou because in her kakera she both knew of his existence and didn’t see him die. Because Maria saw him die, she is unable to see him as alive in her kakera. Sakutarou died in Maria’s kakera, not Ange’s kakera.
I believe Ange really died somewhere along the way in her journey this episode (we are told she died in the end after all), whether in the beginning or in the end. But everything that happened, and how it played out are all part of her kakera. I believe Ange says something along the lines of “There are billions of worlds, and it is possible that within one of them magic exists.” Maria’s world/kakera is one specific example of one where magic exists.
When Bernkastel is said to be looking for a kakera where her family comes home and she’s happy, she’s really saying that she’s looking for an individual who knows of them and who in their perception of the world they somehow ended up happy. So it’s a person who has vivid memories of them, but doesn’t know that 3/4ths of them died.
This is a very loose theory, but I hope I’m getting at something here.
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Your answer is very intriguing! I’d say it fits pretty well with Maria’s description. There’s room for debate, but here’s some quotes that seem to support your interpretation on some level.
A huge theme of Episode 4 is the nature of ‘truth’, a sort of rejection of certainty and objectivity. Okonogi shares his belief that he doesn’t believe objective truth exists, or at the very least, humans will never be able to see it. What one person views as reality may differ greatly to another person. Then, which is the real world? Is it neither, or both? From the perspective of “the objective reality”, probably neither. But we are humans, and we are limited by our five senses and the cognition of our own mind. We can only construct an approximation of what reality is based on the information granted to us. In that sense, everybody has their own ‘world’, and none of them are invalid. Thinking of these according to the term ‘Fragments’ is very interesting indeed.
And also, I can’t give it away because I don’t have a definitive answer. By your words, I can only show you my Fragment. This is how my words should be taken. Of course, my interpretation holds weight because I have finished the story and you guys haven’t, but there is more than enough room to disagree with me.
Now, the next question. What relevance could all of this have to Umineko as a whole?