Umineko Episode 8 General Discussion

Yeah. I think I’ve come to terms with the fact that this Episode is far from perfect. But in terms of what it conveys, it’s still one of the most goddamn beautiful endings I could have hoped for. Bravo, Ryukishi.

One noteworthy aspect of this Episode is how it addresses “the truth”. The catbox of Rokkenjima is a big focus of the story, but what about the catbox of the outside world, the future? From Episode 4 at least, the future seemed pretty fixed and reliable as a point of reference. But Episode 8 completely tears that apart and makes us begin questioning what even is “real” in this work of fiction. I know that’s a weird thing to say, but yet so many people are so determined to sort out the ‘truth’ of Umineko’s world. But it feels like Episode 8 was written to be especially regressive here. Bernkastel states that there’s no way Ange could possibly survive the jump, which makes anything that happens after that in any of the Episodes extremely dubious. There’s Ikuko using the red truth in a goddamn press conference with no attempt at explaining how that’s possible. And then there’s Ange telling Okonogi that he told her the words “Without love it cannot be seen”, even though that happened in the Episode 8 reality where she did jump off the building. Lots of weird stuff going on. It’s as if Ryukishi is trying to get people to stop worrying about what’s real and what’s not, and just demonstrate that the goal of determining the canonicity of Umineko’s timelines isn’t really the point. Well, what do you think about that? Do you think he’s trying to lead us off, or am I just being lazy and not thinking hard enough?

4 Likes

It’s almost as though the entire story of Umineko is fantasy :pukuku:

4 Likes

It’s almost 4 am over here and the podcast is recorded in two hours, I just finished, and I don’t think I can think very clearly right now, but I wanna say that this episode was great.

I am still of the impression that most stuff in all episodes exists in Layer X as written tales, but what’s very difficult now is figuring out at exactly which point the two Hachijos started writing this tale for Ange. Actually, considering Ange started writing as well, there’s a new idea I have, which might work, and again, it’s late, so this won’t be the most reasoned out post, but basically I’m wondering if Ange, at some point after the ending we see, started taking the two episodes written by Sayo and the six written by Hachijo, and simply modified them to include her story, as well as modified them to be this series of consecutive games instead of individual tales. In this theory, I suspect that all Tea Parties were added by her, considering that Bern’s vessel seems to be connected to Hachijo, which makes not much sense if she already appears in the first two tales. For the main tales, it’s anyone’s guess what was added and what was already there really, and I’m not really interested in dissecting into figuring out what was what. Also considering I suspect this to happen after Ange was reunited with her brother, this could totally be a VN in universe, heh.

And while I called it a theory, by now I feel the term head canon is more fitting in my case, because really, this is something I could see and like to believe in, but don’t really want to force on others.

4 Likes

So, here we are, at the end of a very long journey. Where to start…

First off, even though I’ve said it like four times already - @Aspirety Thank you for having me on board for the Ep8 podcast. Even if I only joined in for the last two podcasts, and even if I was a bit of a nervous wreck for most of the Ep7 podcast, it was a ton of fun to be able to discuss things like this and bounce ideas and interpretations around. I’ve still got my own analysis blog to finish (still slogging through Episode 6, god help me), but I’ve taken a liking to the idea of analysis videos as well. I’ve already got an idea for one to start with, too… :mariaemo:

Now then! Episode 8 itself. Well, uh, as I’ve alluded to a few times (mostly on Discord I think?), I wasn’t a big fan of Ep8 when I first read it. While I don’t know how to put into words exactly what I would’ve hoped to see after Episode 7 (especially that Tea Party), Ep8 as a whole felt like a bit of a letdown in that regard.

I feel like I should clarify - when I say I don’t like Episode 8, I really mean as a whole - the first half or so, with Ange and the family and the quiz party and such, is a heart-touching send-off to the Ushiromiyas as a whole (though that whole “Battler is Kyrie’s son” thing was handled… pretty anticlimactically, imho!) and really quite fun and cute to read, and the whole ending - starting with Ange fully realizing her potential as a Witch of Resurrection, to Battler and Beato leaving Rokkenjima, to Ange and Tohya meeting in the future - is pretty much perfect (I think it’s interesting how, in a way, Battler/Tohya ends up being a sort of “inversion” of Sayo/Beato’s circumstances, in terms of “characters” and “split personalities” and such).
The fight scenes in between aren’t really what I was signing up for, so I don’t feel too strongly about them (though it’s great to see the whole Ushiromiya family get one last time to shine during their defense of the Golden Land), but as a whole, the Episode doesn’t really mesh together for me as well as, say, Episode 4 does, in spite of its own pacing problems.

Having said that, I still think Episode 8 is a fitting, beautiful ending for the series and Ange’s character arc. I don’t shed tears a lot (I get highly emotional, but tears just don’t happen that often for whatever reason), but I’ll be damned if Umineko doesn’t bring me very, very close to it at times.

I can’t really think of anything else to say right now, so… <Have a nice day.> See you again, when something else cries.

4 Likes

Then I advise you to look into the manga version next. :wink:
Like I stated above, when reading the VN of episode 8 I had issues with it as well, but the manga version is basically just perfect! At least I was left a wreck afterwards.

6 Likes

Oh, I’ve read the manga version, yeah. It’s got its ups and downs, for me - on one hand, some of the added or changed scenes (the scene when Ange first wakes up in the Golden Land immediately comes to mind) are a lot more effective, I feel, than their VN equivalents.
On the other hand, though, even without bringing Confession of the Golden Witch into things, the manga pushes the “correct answer” a bit much for me. I have absolutely 0 problem accepting Shkanon/Sayo Yasuda as canon - I clued into her existence around Episode 4, and getting to meet her in Ep7 was truly magical, and since then she’s become a character very, very dear to me - but I feel like a lot of the magic around her was in seeing through the layers of the fantasy and finding her for yourself. The manga feels a bit too… “Hey, this is the answer, in case you haven’t figured it out yet,” to me? I dunno how to put it.

Having said that, I love Confession of the Golden Witch so, so much. I think it’s a very valuable insight into Sayo’s state of mind and what actually drove her to planning the murders, and it’s absolutely heartrending to read. I just want to give her a hug so bad, the poor girl… :crying:

7 Likes

And here’s the last batch of new music.

2 Likes