It Walks In Our Home

Gameboards
#61

This keeper thing is starting to become a problem to me. I don’t know, some points in the story sound like he is in fact the key keeper and some points don’t (to me).

If one thing is certain is that Kanon was the key keeper from begin to end, he couldn’t have become the key keeper at some point in the middle, due to the narration rules. I think we all have to agree on this.

Kinzo was the key keeper:
[Color=blue] Kinzo left the study after seeing the telephone lines were cut, so he could find the killer and take him out. The killer found him first and killed him, taking the key afterwards. The shot wasn’t heard because the weapon was silenced. The culprit didn’t take the key from one of Kinzo’s pockets, so he didn’t ‘pickpocket’ him, the key was in another part of the body when Kinzo died. He entered the room, took the vial and left the study. The voice everyone heard was a recording, even if it was indeed Kinzo’s.[/color]

The weapon was silenced this time, but not when Kanon was shot. There is a reason for this. The culprit didn’t want people to discover of this Kinzo’s voice trick, while he wanted everyone left to hear Kanon being shot. Or maybe he thought everyone in the house was already dead, thinking Kanon didn’t make it in time to save Battler, so he didn’t care about it anymore.

The key could’ve ended up in another part of the body due to the impact, or could’ve fallen to the ground, there are some variations of this (when talking about the pickpocket part).

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#62

The issue I’m having here right now is the whole idea of recording/soundboard. First off, having a soundboard on the island in the first place seems pretty unreasonable to me. Like, could you even get something like that in 1986 without it being a part of some big studio? Being around Kinzo long enough to get the samples you need would be even harder. And if it were just simple recordings, it’s a tricky game. Kanon was, after all, asking the questions. The culprit wouldn’t have known in advance what they’d need to record beforehand. Not to mention, I doubt Kinzo would’ve been open to the idea of being recorded in the first place.

It’s the same issue, funnily enough, as the one Battler points out in his hypothetical scenario in Jessica’s side of the story. There’s too many things left to chance.

If you truly insist I will go into denying this more conclusively, but I want you to get the feel that a recording isn’t really the way to go here. I can come up with much more plausable explanations to this particular scenario without the use of a recording.

(Also, no worries about the pickpocket thing, I can accept pillaging of a dead corpse to be different to pickpocketing.)

Edit: I made a red in here but I ended up misunderstanding what I was actually responding to, RIP. No worries though, the red itself will probably end up popping up soon enough, anyway, no biggie.

#63

Why would he have to get it back on Kanon for the logic to work? Like I said, Kanon believed he dropped the key off in Kinzo’s office last night (since he noticed it is no longer on him), so he believes it is in Kinzo’s possession (and thus only Kinzo letting someone in could explain breaching the study). Kinzo on the other hand, knows Kanon did not leave the key with him, and thus suspectts him of stealing the box. Meanwhile, the culprit can freely plant the key after killing Kinzo (whenever that was).

#64

Hm. Missed that part. Oh, well. Makes no difference.

I can’t really see why I would put in a trick that relied upon unreliable narration and on top of that require an assumption to be made on something that I showed no real reason for happening.

Oh, well.

That red I edited from the previous post comes back, as I suspected. [color=red]Throughout the course of the game, whenever Kanon dropped something (as in, accidentally dropped) or intentionally disposed of something from his person, he would’ve noticed it and noted it in the narration.[/color] (For example, the numerous times he dropped the sword.)

#65

I’m not sure how this red counters the theory though. It still allows for the possibility that Kanon did not drop or dispose of the key when he meant to. This red only guarantees that “if something was disposed of, it was noticed” not “if something was not disposed of, it was also noticed”.

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#66

My bad, I misunderstood.

It’d be pretty shitty of me if I expected this to be the solution to the conundrum. Not only would you have to assume an unreliable narration, but assume that the narrator himself had fooled himself to be doubly unreliable.

It won’t do.

[color=red]Aside from the coffee, Kanon never believed he left anything else behind in Kinzo’s study on the night of the 4th.[/color]

#67

Let’s simplify things a bit then.

[color=blue] The other person Kinzo showed the poison to is Rudolf. Rudolf is in fact inside the study with Kinzo when the group comes upon the study. Rudolf has told Kinzo that the outsiders are trying to kill the Ushiromiya’s, hence Kinzo’s paranoia and suspicion of Kanon re: the box, as he’s the only other one who should know of its existence. Rudolf then kills Kinzo inside the study and leaves the key on his person when he leaves. [/color]

#68

However, all of the members of the family (thus including Rudolf) would’ve been present at dinner. Kanon left to get Kinzo his coffee while the others were drinking theirs in the dining room.

This is running under the assumption your theory here is that Rudolf was secretly in the study or something while Kanon was giving Kinzo coffee because otherwise the red about kinzo not letting anyone in after Kanon leaves prevents all alternatives.

#69

[color=blue] Kinzo was lured from his study after interacting with the group. He was killed with a silenced weapon, his body placed back in the study, and the key left on his body (where it always was) [/color]

#70

If we go under the assumption that the culprit started acting right after the dinner, Rudolf (or anyone there, really) could’ve asked to go to the bathroom and then do everything that has been said.

Or one of the adults could have asked to simply leave before the others, there really isn’t that much of a problem, they weren’t suspicious at the time, am I wrong?

EDIT: Xak, I made the same theory before, but the problem I find is that if Kinzo died before the group heard his voice, we have to find what produced the voice. If he died after that, how was the box of poison taken out? Maybe you can help me with this.

#71

To address the issue @EntropyMirror brought up above: [color=blue]Kinzo was lured from his study twice. Once the night before, and during that absence the poison was stolen. [/color]

#72

Super-weird theory. [Color=blue] Gohda is the culprit. [/color]

[Color=blue]Gohda’s head in the fridge was a fake.[/color]
[Color=blue] Gohda’s head in the fridge was Rudolf’s head changed so it would look like Gohda’s[/color]
Or even better.
[Color=blue] Some bodies’ parts were missing, like for example Eva’s eyes, “Gohda”'s head in the fridge is actually a collage of parts he took from various heads. The head was, in fact, Rudolf’s. [/color] The culprit wearing Genji’s raincoat and Nanjo’s boots supports this theory more.
Rudolf’s head was missing when Kyrie found the body, anyway.

Now onto Rosa’s room: “The one on the right, judging by the physique, Gohda’s.” (Page 55).
[Color=blue]The body found in Rosa’s room was Rudolf’s.[/color]
[Color=blue]The body found in Rosa’s room was Krauss’, Gohda had the time to cut the head off the body and put it on the chair while the group was searching Eva’s room.[/color]

Same reasoning could work for Kumasawa and Genji, but Gohda is probably the one with the most similar physique to Krauss’ and Rudolf’s.

Gohda being the culprit also explains some strange things:

The usage of poison.
The red skull key literally being inside George and George’s state in general.
The culprit taking various body parts.
The culprit’s usage of knives, especially with Eva and George.
In Eva’s case a rope was used in a particular way, which to me looks like those animals who are roped before being prepared. Eva was treated like a pig, really.

This may or may not be considered a troll theory, but I believe in it a bit. I’ll show it again after we deal with Kinzo’s study, if it isn’t denied before we solve that problem.

#73

OooOoOOoOOooh…!

Enough is enough!

[color=red]This mystery follows the rules of Knox’s decalogue![/color] The only exception to this, given that I never specified that a detective even existed, is Knox’s 7th, which will be simply altered to ‘The narrator cannot make any lies in their narration.’ for the sake of there being no misunderstsandings. (And because Lord knows that even if I made them all detectives, you’d find some way to make them unreliable, anyway.)

Now, then.

[color=red]Knox’s 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented![/color] I won’t have this endless leaving and reentering or speculating what Kinzo may or may not have done! You claim that Kinzo left not once, but twice? The first time around, after returning, his precious box would’ve been gone, wouldn’t it have? Wouldn’t he have done something about that? And the second time around - why on Earth would he have left after he presented the situation, clear as day, that he was holing up in his study and did not want anyone entering or not entering?!

Explain, and not through baseless speculation, or perish.

I’m not done, though.

You’ve brought yourself into a corner because I’ve left you with only one mystery to solve in your eyes. That was my mistake.

I shall now rectify it.

[color=red]Natsuhi did not die as a result of a trap! Which is to say, she did not die as a result of any mechanism or contraption - timed or not - which would’ve allowed the culprit to kill her without being in the room with her.[/color]

Yeah, you’re not getting away with this one, either.

[color=red]Knox’s 10th! It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues![/color] Even if it was dark, Kanon would’ve immediately realized the person he was talking to wasn’t the same one he’d literally spoken to seconds ago.

[color=red]Knox’s 8th.[/color] Precisely because the design of the work desk was never specified, you lose any sort of proof anyone could’ve hidden in there.

[color=red]All of the heads Kanon found in the fridge belonged exactly to the people Kanon attributed them to.[/color]

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#74

So you started showing your weapons, finally. :bern:

I liked that collage theory, but I’ll have to leave it be, unfortunately. [Color=blue] Gohda’s head was there, the rest of the body was hidden in the fridge, which Kanon didn’t check.[/color]

#75

Nah, he saw them clearly placed on a shelf in such a way where that setup wouldn’t have worked. (I didn’t really bother describing the fridge anyway, so, y’know, [color=red]Knox’s 8th[/color], I guess).

An important note (or, at least, a suggestion), you don’t have to change much in your approach, despite Knox’s 8th. Whenever I use the decalogue, I will explicility point out my problem with the theory as I use it. So you’ll never just be told “no clues, lel”, I’ll tell you exactly what I want.

Also, another note – obviously, it’s not as if I need you to prove to me literally every minute detail of the culprit’s movements. (IE, it’s not like I’ll jump at your throat for going: ‘The culprit entered this room.’ and say ‘OH YEAH PROVE THAT SHIT TOUGH GUY’.)

I’ll do my best to be as reasonable as possible. This is just a tool for me to keep theories that are way out there (ie melting keys, kinzo steppin in and out of his room a million times for no reason other than convenience for the red, etc etc)

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#76

Well can’t save hiding for Rosa’s room then. Desk is the only thing that’s even mentioned specifically, so hiding in any other place would just get silly. I suppose I could try behind the door but… nah.

[color=blue]The culprit left through a window, then closed it after the group broke into the room.[/color]

(just because I love throwing out blues that clearly won’t lead to issues with other mysteries.)

#77

Then I’ll try to patch up the hole in Natsuhi’s bathroom.

[color=blue] Kanon accidentally unlocked the window as he was checking to ensure it was locked. So it was locked when he checked, but he left it unlocked. The culprit enters from the window, kills Natsuhi, and hides in the bathroom, escaping when Kanon discovers the body. [/color]

#78

Let’s make this simple. [color=red]After the door was broken down, Kanon was the first person to examine the windows in Rosa’s room. (Or, to turn it around, no memeber of the group got close to the windows until Kanon finished inspecting them.)[/color]

How does one accidentally unlock a window during a check to explicitly make sure it was locked…? How does one accidentally unlock a window at all…?

Hell, screw it. [color=red]Nobody can unlock a window without realizing they unlocked it![/color]

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#79

[color=blue]The culprit locked Rosa’s room with a dry ice key.[/color]

I’m afraid it’s clearly stated as a concept within the story. :tehehe:

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#80

[color=red]No duplicates of any of the keys presented the story ever existed.[/color]