Recollection of a Mafia game [GAME OVER - Lovers' Victory]

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#462

Kay, so I’ve got an idea. After @SleepingPliskin’s comments I got to thinking; what if he actually knows more than us (which I’d already suspected) and is totally right and knows it? That is, that Doldod is a witch and Sapphire a human. In which case it’s very possible that they are a classic lovers duo, i.e. their true goal is to eliminate everyone else, human and witch alike, and survive together alone. The only issue I see with this is that most of the time the human lover knows their S.O. to be a witch, but Sapphire has not denied the possibility to it sounds like Sapphire was given no information, allowing this idea to be a thing.

In that case it may very well be that Pli and Doldod are the witch “team”, though Doldod would likely have to backstab him eventually, since the witches’ supposed goal is to eliminate all humans. This makes a lot of details in the rules make a lot more sense suddenly, actually…

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#463

Well I think I’m the only one who said that, so I guess this is addressed to me.
It’s just looking from my pov like you lead events in the first two days including many accusations, so learning you are a witch would’ve made a lot of things more clear, especially concerning those who were easy to agree with you on your suspicions.

Was this supposed to be a bait to see if (if you’re a human) anyone would answer in my stead? or (if you’re a witch) to find a ground to suspect someone else now?

Well it doesn’t really matter I suppose. Right now the main reason I actually am not sure if you’re a witch or not, frankly speaking, is because how almost everyone seems inclined to suspect you. Of course it could be another witch plot…

Sorry I could probably try to voice this better, but I’m really tired right now. I will say for instance that if you’re a witch it would’ve made thesorceress also suspicious, well at least prior to her attacking you… It also would most likely imply that EternalMagician and Quixote are both humans. Now we lost one of the two, who was demonstrated to be human, and we learned nothing. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but even if you are a human I think we would’ve learned more from your death than that of King or Quixote, which is basically leaving us with absolutely nothing… That’s also why both of these targets sounds like “very good ones” from a witch’s pov.

So anyway here’s a completely crazy idea I’ve been pondering about :

Title

I’ve been thinking about Vyse’s game and things from his pov and trying to see if I could figure out anything from it. I’m not sure it’s worth explaining all of my thought process and I’m kinda out of it now.

But I’ve been considering the whole idea about we all being humans and the one flaw I find in it is that how are we supposed to stop it? There should be at least a key, a person whom if we catch it stops the whole thing. Well unless we’re all supposed to attack the GM as I mentioned a while ago but that’s utterly crazy right?

So I’ve been wondering if it’d be possible we’d be dealing with a single witch only. Well, they may have one or even many accomplices, but that’s not even necessary and maybe better if it’s not the case.

Suffice to say that an umineko based setting would make us try to find a single witch, well that is pretty cool. It means we’ve been really thrown into a situation comparable to Rokkenjima. At the very least, I think I’d try to do that if I was the GM of this game.

So is it underpowered to have a single witch? I don’t know about that. We often try to find out who the witches are by associations, by whom they want to target, whom they want to protect, who seems to be plotting together, etc…

A single freelance witch would be free from all of that. Of course, a single detective could ruin this, but if there is no detective and the witch knows it it could become pretty balanced. The witch could attack anyone, join any thought, defend anyone, and overall act like a completely normal human player and still get away with it. They’d be far closer to being the “key” to end the game than a witch in the typical Mafia sense. They’d be actually very hard to catch. Add to this some things like knowing no one has abilities and them being “immuned” to the randomized death if we don’t reach a conclusion on who to kill and it actually sounds quite hard. In fact I have no idea where we could begin to hunt if that is the case. In fact it sounds so hard that I wonder if they wouldn’t have a sort of counter bind to leave us any form of clue to figure them out…

Now along this line of thought I was wondering that if Vyse wanted absolutely to recreate the second twilight, the witch may have been told and even bound to go after Doldod/Sapphire should we have elected not to kill anyone on the first day. I guess a Rosa/Maria was pretty well fitting tho, and not everyone has such “coupling” to make a perfect second twilight but I suppose that’s not super important. In any case Vyse once again seems to have insisted with the similarities with Umineko in his last message at the beginning of the third day.

I will say that if I’m right I wouldn’t be surprised if they still had an accomplice, but that it’s killing the “witch” that would end the game. Oh and I would think I may be deadly right if it’s the case that we’ll be gameover if we reach the 9th twilight without figuring out the culprit, tho I wouldn’t know exactly what would trigger it (the death of the 8th, or “not killing the witch” at the 9th?)

Well this is pretty crazy, but hey it’d be really like umineko. If anything, I think such a game could be pretty fun to have been played even if this isn’t Vyse’s plan there.

So yeah this is probably crazy. But part of me kinda hopes this is right as it’d be pretty amazing to live as experiment and would make some sense out of a few things including how we are utterly lost as to any serious lead here.

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#464

Gah I meant to put all of that in the arrow thing but I guess I fail at foruming…

#465

Okay but there’s no way something like that would have been set from the beginning because Pliskin would just be utterly screwed then - either he gets backstabbed at the end or his “teammate” randomly dies and he’s all alone. I could see it as an ability that was used the first night, but Sapphire specifically stated this was in their role PM. Might work with a few more witches but I’m not sure if it’s that likely.

#466

Btw I think this is the most likely scenario for now, tho I’m not sure if there is really three witches there… especially considering how some of these people have suspected each other.

In any case we need to decide on a suspect at some point… Ideally not being thrown in a last minute situation like the last time.

#467

Hmm maybe. @SleepingPliskin if my theory is right, do you think you’re in an unfair situation?

#468

Interesting theory. Maybe we just have to survive to the ninth twilight and whoever’s left wins? Admittedly would truly make this more of a social experiment than a game. Maybe there’s a deeper reason to the fact this is called a “recollection”.
A single witch would still probably not be balanced. Any setup that can potentially end the game on the first day probably isn’t that balanced.

And yes, we do need to get to sorting out suspects. I do hope that possibility is the right one as it’s the simplest and has the best odds of success… Now, the question is how to split it. Is it likely Karifean and Eternalmagician are both witches? I would not put it above Karifean to just push hard against his own partner, he’s done it before, but Eternalmagician at least seemed genuinely discouraged by the whole thing for a while, so… hard to say. If we’re saying it’s not likely, we could put off that decision and kill one of the other two.

#469

Well there is the fact that Karifean jumped off the “kill EternalMagician” train twice the moment it became convinient. There’s a reason I think it’s possible they’re allies.

I find all of these theories very interesting, but none of them seem like the actual solution to what’s going on here. I’m really not certain what is going on anymore.

#470

Just saying if this was my game I’d totally have done it like this ahaha. If it doesn’t work out, then it doesn’t work out -shrugs- it’d still be fun to at least try it. I mean it’s a game so it’s worth trying some crazy things once in a while.

Also, more seriously, yes I’m also tempted to believe more in EternalMagician having given up on the game than on Karifean being a human, if I had to make a choice there…

Sorry Kari :confused:

SleepingPliskin is a rather tempting choice simply because we have pretty much nothing on him and that may be how a witch would try to position themselves there. That’s kinda a terrible reasoning but it’s also a bit abnormal that on the third day we still have nothing on him. The downside to this is that if he’s human the same thing makes him a very easy target for witches to gang up against…

#471

Thing is he wouldn’t be able to predict whether there’d be a convenient time to jump off, especially on the first day, so it’s a little tricky unless he just banked on the fact people wouldn’t trust him. (and they almost did trust him before King happened)

#472

I don’t know about that, from my position it felt like Karifean was using EternalMagician as a “better bait” and would’ve attack anyone who went after him.

Wait
That’s kinda exactly what happened there.
After King jumped and voted against EternalMagician, pictoshark instantly turned against him and then Kari jumped as well very soon after, tho the whole “fiasco” of King saying picto’s PM’s content made that much easier.

Heh… definitively worth remembering this.

#473

wait, did you ask if I’m in an unfair situation or Blackrune?

#474

You.

#475

Okay, I’m back from reading the thread of the Mafia Roulette game, in which Kari was a witch, and I do see some of his strategy from that time here, but that’s too vague a reason to accuse him…

But, you know, you’ve given me a very strong reason to suspect you now, @Karifean. Okay, maybe him and @SleepingPliskin too, their posts on this do seem to coordinate. Now then, this is my theory on Karifean being a witch. Many people here have been suspicious of my and Doldod’s identities, and the witches, instead of going the easy way and killing me or Doldod at night, have come up with a more clever thought. They are, basically, trying to manipulate me and Doldod’s situation, then make the humans double kill us. Well, Karifean is, he seems to be the schemer. That way, Karifean could make the humans think they’re doing some murder based more on reasoning that he’s providing, rather than attack a passive player like the first two nights. Then he and his fellow witches get to kill the easier and more passive targets at night, thus eliminating them and making us humans focus on more active players and then eventually kill one another. So, they got the idea that we’re so-called witches from everybody else saying it, then they thought up this scenario of the lovers trying to outdo everybody else. After that, Pliskin made the posts saying that one of us is human and the other a witch. Afterwards, Karifean reacted to them, firstly saying that he doesn’t think it’s possible, then after some so-called deliberating, he supposedly came up with this wild theory. That way he can take away some of the attention of himself being suspected too, and try to make everybody focus on us two. Actually, most were disregarding us for the most part on the third day and now he wants the attention to be put back on us.

Now, before I said that I could believe his theory that Doldod is a witch, now I do not anymore. Cause if he is and I’m a human, and we win together neither the humans nor the witches would win, making the whole point of the game nonsensical. This is why I won’t trust him anymore.

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#476

Vote: Karifean.

#477

Well nothing will happen until fingers starts to be properly pointed.
So let’s start this hey!
It’s more fun that way if anything else…

Vote : Karifean

Quite honestly I picked you out randomly among the people I consider potentially suspect, but I’m not going to hide that I find that choice to be very fitting. It looks like even sheer randomness is suspicious of you.

If I’m right now suddenly a bunch of people will start to claim I’m suspect and attack me. @thesorceress @blackrune reminding you of anything? In any case it’ll be more fun this way.

#478

To be honest, yes and no. I’m suspect due to my lack of clarity to where I stand, but that’s how I usually play these types of games. So I understand why I would be suspected. However, I think it’s unfair to ignore a few things. I mentioned earlier that Blackrune trusting Usagi a lot is suspicious to me. I’ve clearly haven’t aligned myself with anyone due to how inconclusive everyone is. I suspected the “duo” mostly because I feel like it’s a move that makes sense.

You can even say that the witches are “flipping the chessboard”.

#479

I think humans/witches could still win after they kill you, but as I said before it’s kind of a strong position that drastically weakens the witches, so I don’t think it’d be something you’d straight up start out with.

I’m still unsure about this. Would have preferred Pliskin here but I’m not sure if you suspect him as much. (and now I don’t wanna be the guy that suggests a switch and then screwed everything up with it)
If this is your vote I’ll probably go along with it soonish because at this point we can’t afford getting split on this.
I’ll give some time for a response though at least.

#480

Just saying, sorry if I’m annoying…

I think if you have a vote to cast on someone else it’s better you do so. There’s nothing weirder than having everyone agreeing on someone rapidly - it nearly always leads to bad answers cause it means some witches are joining in… But having everyone casting their vote would potentially shorten the choices we can make here and this is probably the only way we’ll reach any answer this time around.

Think of it as a means of making a preliminary list I guess we can work out from?

#481

One part of me is like fine if you guys don’t see I’m human serves you right to kill me off, but then I remember that the rules are written in such a way that you can’t accept your own death for the greater good because you simply lose if you die. Also I haven’t been townlynched in way too long, wouldn’t want to break that streak now.

First off, if you actually think I’m leading you into acting a certain way, don’t be ridiculous. No way I could possibly predict people’s actions that well, though I’m flattered that you think I am.

I suppose I should address the allegations of jumping off the “kill EternalMagician” train as well. And that also means claiming my role. I am, in fact, a Detective. However, I do not know my sanity. What does that mean? That means that there are five broad possibilities: either my results are always correct, always the inverse of what they’re supposed to be, always Human, always Witch, or random. I investigated EternalMagician during Night 1 and got a “Human” result back. I promptly tried to get him killed to be able to ascertain my sanity without having to sacrifice another night just to find out if what I got back was truthful. However, by that point he wasn’t high on my list of suspects anymore so I was content with lynching Quixote whom I was far more convinced was a Witch. Alas, no. To get some clarity on my previous investigation I decided to investigate myself Night 2, and the result I got back was “Human” again. If it had been Witch instead I would’ve known I was ‘insane’ and thus EternalMagician would be a witch. Sadly, it was also Human, which means two possibilities: either I’m a sane detective and EternalMagician is also human, or I’m a naive detective (which might as well make me vanilla) and EternalMagician can be either.

So that’s why now I’m no longer on the Let’s Lynch EternalMagician train. However, trusting EternalMagician makes the pool of suspects evermore tiny. I like to think I’m not total garbage at reading people in these games and both thesorceress and UsagiTenpura have not even once made me raise my eyebrows in suspicion. However, this leaves naught but Pliskin, Blackrune and, well, Sapphire and Doldod. Which led me to the theory I posted prior. I wished to know if there could be something to it. It’s possible I completely misread thesorceress and Usagi, but I’m more inclined to believe the witches are hiding elsewhere.

Can’t say the accusation comes unexpectedly, hell after the disaster that was yesterday’s lynch I’m surprised it took this long, but with this ruleset I really can’t just let you guys lynch me ^^;