When They Cry 5 Pre-Release Discussion & Speculation

07th Discussion
#41

It would seem from the financial and commercial Vista given in the teaser that the next mystery will probably involve murder over money.

My theory is, given the overall fashion of the WtC series (I.e. a series of murders culminating an an event of a massacre) it’s entirely possible that it might feature a group of companies trying to best each other by murdering the competition over something like owning the largest market stake or something thereabouts (like the ten tons of gold in Umineko). It could also be the other way around where they murder each other to prevent their companies from falling into collapse (it’s hard to tell when Ryukishi07 is the one writing it, after all). So the series of murders takes place and then by some disaster the market crashes, resulting in a full-scale public riot against the corporations creating something similar to the mob mentality of Hinamizawa. Of course, this sounds very similar to Dangan Ronpa, which I won’t elaborate on because spoilers.

But anyway, I can see there being a lot of angles to this kind of plot and it’s something that can be played over and over again with several different variations. We might get to see Okonogi, possible Amakusa and Ange for a cameo, maybe it’ll go into the past and feature Rudolf and Kyrie, or possibly Rosa’s company or even Krauss’s or Eva’s management of their respective companies in their time. (Higurashi​ Minagoroshi-hen spoilers) They might even feature ‘Tokyo’ behind it all.

Of course, this is blind theorising, so I guess we’ll find out more from the first episode release.

Like @Echo, I got into the series quite late and had both spoiled in finding out the details of the plot, so I’m only too happy to join the hype at this stage.

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#42

Hmm, I don’t see it like that. From what @Isae has posted at the beginning of the thread, that Ryukishi is aiming for the concept of an open world, I don’t think your companies concept works with that. Meaning that, these companies would present like what, a few executives, some other maybe mysterious workers lower in rank and maybe the executives’ loved ones. That would make a tight cast of characters with connections to one another, and while I may be completely wrong here, from the words ‘open world’, I understand a city in which possibilities of somebody random, who may not seem connected at the mystery at first, or maybe somebody even hidden, that the other characters should find can be the culprit or involved in the mystery somewhat. Open world means a world free to explore, thus I think that maybe Ryukishi means exploring this whole city, however random it may seem and finding obscure connections in some parts. And I mean no offense, but the companies trying to outdo one another setting that you came up with is… well, pretty boring to me. It could be incredible if done well, of course, but it is a bit dull to me. And like you said, Vayalite, that the When They Cry series always culminate in a massacre and you think that will be possible here too, which is completely possible… I wouldn’t like that, I’d like something new and a story coiled up completely differently. As for cameos, they’d be nice, but I’d rather have this story have no connection to the previous games, like I said, I want something new in many aspects. Also, I don’t think anybody here should analyse the visual much, I don’t think it contains any clues or anything, it’s probably just the city in which the story will take place.

Speaking of, have any announcements been made in regards to whether or not there will be a manga counterpart of this (which I think it will)?

3 Likes
#43

Now that that aspect is being questioned, it makes me wonder once again what exactly the major differences in this series are going to be compared to the previous… It’s possible, I think, that the open-world structure might be the only major change, but since that seems to be by no means certain at this point, I’d like to codify what I currently perceive as the major elements of the When They Cry formula in previous series. I’m not sure how useful these points will be, but I’ve been wanting to share my conception of some of them for a bit.

Using my own names for the aspects (there might be better names or already-established names out there):

  • Mystery: The events of the series raise questions for the audience and challenge them to figure out the secrets behind what’s going on.
  • Question-completeness: It is possible from the audience’s perspective to solve, if not all of the mysteries raised thus far, then at least all of the main mysteries pertaining to some central question or set of questions, by the time the final question arc concludes. (This is not something I can directly attest to, having neither read beyond the question arcs for either series nor assembled the core answers for either, but I have heard it in multiple places.)
  • Looping structure: The arcs, from the audience’s perspective, at least appear to cover multiple different versions of the same time period, and contain many similar events.
  • Threat of zone collapse: By the end of an arc, a tragedy may be shown to occur that wipes out all or almost all of the population of the main setting of that arc’s parent series.

The first two elements here, I believe, are much more integral to the spirit of the series than the latter two, but in my experience the third and, to a lesser degree, the fourth both contribute to the feeling of it. However, I do think the fourth point is the most likely of any of them to be abolished or significantly altered this round, if any.

3 Likes
#44

“Who pressed the button to fire the nuke?”

Now I’m thinking of Punchline :stuck_out_tongue:

#46

I still hold on to my own theory, and say…
tenshi no naku koro ni?
Whenever I see this image, the feathers remind me immediately of Gabriel.

#47

I think the titles in WTC tend to represent a time point before the mystery ends. With Higurashi, the mystery ends when the Cicidas no longer cry at the end of summer, and with Umineko the mystery ends when the Seagulls cry.

So if we suspect, that angels are crying, then what does that signify? I can’t think of any specific references in literature or religion when angels cry.

So maybe, we need to think more in the lines of connecting to the title to time points. In a urban setting the mystery is usually ends when the police arrive after the body is discovered…and unlike an isolated location like Rokenjimma, the police will arrive much quicker. Maybe the crying sounds refer to the police sirens but I cant think of a feathered animal that is known to make siren-like noises.

I got nothing

1 Like
#48

These are all really interesting theories!
I like “When the Angels cry” - it sounds very poetic!

But, in Japanese it sounds a little odd. The “naku” is less like crying from sadness - in the context of the titles, but more as the call/“cry” of the animal itself. The call/cry of the seagulls, the call/cry of the higurashi.
In Japanese stories, especially horror and mystery - giving an atmospheric image or feel is very important. This is why the other two similar titles are more abstract “scenes” or atmospheric and not direct descriptors.
Eg. Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni (Spider lillies blossom in the evening) or Hotarubi no Tomoru Koro ni (When the firefly lights shine) invoke images of a scene or atmosphere

When we say “when the angels cry” in Japanese - we wonder, what sound do angels make? It sounds a little awkward as if the angel will have a cry like an animal. It doesnt entirely invoke the image of an angel shedding tears initially ;;
Ryukishi doesnt write “naku” in the title in kanji, he does in hiragana (なく, naku) but the sound animals make (their cry/call) is “naku” as in 鳴く
But crying as in shedding tears is 泣く(naku)

He doesnt use the kanji because since the animal is the subject, its know the なく (naku) is 鳴く (naku, animals call/cry) the different “na” kanji is implied. It looks more abstract/poetic this way too.

While I do like it, I just dont think it may match thematically with Ryukishi’s naming. If he does use it though - and the implication would change from a sound (like the call of the gulls or higurashi) it would be an action (of crying)
The scene is hard to imagine or less atmospheric in the Japanese sense. It seems more like something we are viewing directly, but not so much an atmosphere
I can only imagine one fitting atmosphere - a kind of apocalypse, or religious Christian theme. (When I think about it from a Japanese perspective and crying angels)

I like @Arietta 's idea of cranes. They would be fitting and could fit easily into a city setting and overall themes of both spirituality, wishes/hopes, and physical topics such as war or illness (themes present in Higurashi and Umineko) as well.

However, it may not be a bird at all. Feathers have been a popular motif for Ryukishi, such as Hanyuu and Featherine having that unique about them, and Umineko Hane as well. It could be moreso connected to the seagulls in that case though. But feathers as a symbol does seem to pop up here and there.

In Japanese symbolism, feathers are common symbols for “freedom”, "taking a leap of faith " “strength”, and a kind of adventure feel. It would be fitting for an open world - but doesnt exactly have to symbolize the potential animal itself. I want to try and keep an open mind.

If its a cityscape, what is a haunting noise in cities? Higurashi fit the typical Japanese sound of a rural forested town. And Umineko fits the typical Japanese sound/atmosphere of the seaside.

What is the typical sound/atmosphere of a cityspace in Japan? cats? (A common motif in Higurashi and Umineko as well), Crows, while a bird too, and may take into account the feathers, could be a good ominous choice (Japanese crows sound much stronger and louder than crows in North America). Sparrows? (A lot of symbolism there, since sparrows are seen as weak alone, but strong together in Japan - a typical symbol of community animal ) their combined chirping and flying across the sky is a common sight in the evenings - or even near a storm in the city. Pigeons are not so common or as loud, or have a distinct cry in Japanese cities with the other animals. It could also be foxes, or maybe tanuki fighting at night - alluding to a story of supernatural themes, or themes of deception and backstabbing.

Theres a lot of things we can explore from the image alone - and given the past patterns of Ryukishi is good to try and find a hint from!

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#49

I’ve been attached to “When the Crows Cry” for a while now, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what he’s going with. They’re a little ominous while very mundane and omnipresent. Crows are also really fucking smart, and there’s so many stories about crows and ravens always looking down, watching the folly of man and remembering everything.

Crows just feels very thematically appropriate.

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#50

When the pigeons cry.
Umineko x hatoful boyfriend crossover

3 Likes
#51

Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry

#52

Maybe it could be “Karasu No Naku Koro Ni”? :smile:

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#53

That’s my prediction!

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#54

The pronunciation of Karasu doesn’t seem as sophisticated as Higurashi and Umineko. I’m thinking it could be a certain animal written in 4 hiragana characters that we don’t know of.
This doesn’t add up:
ひぐらしのなく頃に
うみねこのなく頃に
からすのなく頃に

Maybe the 4 syllables were a coincidence in the first two WTC series?

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#55

If you think about how he names those kind of works in general, though, it works. Higanbana and Hotorubi fit that pattern.

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#56

Crows are common in Japan, especially in cities, and undesirable which is in line with both Cicadas and Seagulls. Japanese crows are also big and aggressive, and as stated somewhat intimidating. I like this theory.

2 Likes
#57

Actually, I was thinking, if we use the specific name for the jungle crow (with the intimidating call, and the most common city crow), it would be “Hashibuto” ハシブト / はしぶと fitting the four syllable name. Its full name is "Hashibuto - garasu (crow) " - but people commonly just call them “Hashibuto”

The (spoilers for Hotarubi) two suns in the sky in the story may also be alluding to the crow connection, maybe as a prelude to the next WTC? if we consider Yatagarasu, the three legged crow. The legends surrounding it always connect it to the sun, or multiple suns. Yatagarasu is also worshipped at shrines so theres another supernatural element of the crows in Japan!

9 Likes
#58

Ahh man Hashibuto no Naku Koro ni sounds perfect

#59

I’m particularly interested in how the urban atmosphere of WtC5 will differ to the atmosphere of Rose Guns Days’s urban atmosphere.

Ahh the hype.

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#60

While you all itch and roll for news, I’m going to start reading Higanbana.
Muhaha. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#61

While that is definitely interesting and it would be well-thought-out folklore-wise, I am doubtful about there being clues in Hotarubi that point to the next When They Cry. Although if it is so and you’ve guessed correctly, that also might be an indictment of When They Cry 5 having connections to the previous When They Cry series, like Umineko with Higurashi, which is something done already and I wouldn’t like for it to happen again, but ah well.