I sincerely hope I post this in the correct channel.
I contacted xaki@Pomexgranate on twitter asking if my english translation of the song titles of the new WTC5 album are correct, and I was quite surprised. I actually got a reply and my translation wasn’t so bad. I posted the full thing here. so you may take a look and use it for speculations. also thanks to @Arietta , for making me go that far and contacting xaki. lmao.
Umm, I can’t read the whole tweet…
But I wouldn’t rely on someone with very little knowledge of English to provide an accurate translation into English. It may give some insight however.
I was originally only going to write a few lines but you know me.
The titles of the new pieces roused interest from me. If not cranes, then Goethe and the themes I posit will persist; Faust and the desecration of the universe in fact spelling out intellectual and spiritual death in return for a gingerbread house (hollow, transient, decadent (or hedonistic)). I’ve already established these and will leave their justification to the appropriate post above.
Of the new pieces, we have the titles Rainbow of Nostalgia, Pink Justice, Utopia, The Star we Loved, Sky of Shunyata, Rebirth of Blue and At the end of a Wish. While some of these translations are not confirmed, they at worst contain the both the linguistic and contextual essences to make sense given the earlier quotes in the character teasers, Rainbow of Nostalgia not being precise yet vaguely so. Rainbow of Nostalgia, Pink Justice and Blue Rebirth are pertinent to Goethe: he wrote a book titled Theory of Colours, subject matter self-evident and, alongside the fact these are likely related to character who represent those colors, Goethe wrote on botany, most famously in his Metamorphosis of Plants, another subject I’ve proven to be relevant to the character naming scheme thus far. Parse his chromatic and photic investigation from the nouns to be left with nostalgia, justice and rebirth. These are undoubtedly relevant descriptors to a story regarding the damage of a mistaken Faustian bargain: that halcyon rainbow prior to the damning deal, justice as sought redemption for abandonment and then the required return to form as a verbose rebirth.
Blue rebirth, however, is more relevant to Sky of Shunyata then its chromatic brethren. Shunyata, as noted in another post, is usually known as a Buddhist (but not exclusively) concept describing at first emptiness, continues to put forth these three things most relevantly: “non-substantiality is neither negative nor world-negating but teaches the importance of perceiving the true nature of phenomena, which are on the surface transient,” “the common message is that the true nature of all phenomena is non-substantiality, and that it cannot be defined in terms of the concepts of existence and nonexistence” and “the practical purpose behind the teaching of non-substantiality lies in eliminating attachments to transient phenomena and to the ego, or the perception of self as an independent and fixed identity.” These would call out especially the sorts of sacrifices made in the bargain, or the soul of humanity, when it chose to be ravished by that gingerbread house, but they connect to the chromatic/photic theme. What’s important about the sky is that it is not only blue, like Blue Rebirth would describe, but that it thus becomes the subject to shunyata and rebirth, both titanic concepts in eastern philosophy. This timelessness espoused by the shunyata concept is undoubtedly reminiscent of reincarnation and reincarnation of shunyata. It would be no surprised for Ryukishi to once again write of and connect eastern philosophy to one of the western world’s best (Dante for Umineko and Goethe here).
Utopia, the Star we Loved and At the End of a Wish are, respectively, the illusory utopia from a wish-granting bargain (utopia even require soullessness to exist), the universe/soul that was once venerated by humanity now being the target of pure nostalgia alongside the fact that the character biographies refer to conceiving and nurturing those lost stars (more return to form) and, finally, the result of the bargain, which was promised to grant a wish but in fact disintegrated the core of humanity’s spirituality. Or, being cute about it, I can summarize it as humanity realizing that, at the end of the utopic wish it had finally granted, the star that composed its soul disappeared.
Then, return all the themes of the titles together and acknowledge Goethe’s chromatic/photic literature plus Faust, eastern philosophy will once again coming into play in synthesis, to find that whatever the crane, or something akin to it in representation, is likely going to be crying this time.
Okay, running with a When the Crane Cries as the hypothesis, fulfill the prediction that “the story is obvious with the title” clue that was given by Ryukishi.
All I the clues I could find on google were:
1000 paper cranes for luck
鶴の一声 proverb -> Something along the line of Famous or Influential person speaks with weight
鶴は千年、亀は万年 -> Longevity symbolism, 1000 year lifespan for cranes, 10000 for turtles
鶴の恩返 -> Grateful swan/crane metamorphs and marries dude, flies away after identity discovered
Other references seem more obscure and would not fulfill the Ryukishi clue.
Now construct your prediction for the story based on your animal, the picture and Ryukishi’s clue.
I wonder if there will be any deep symbolism in WTC5 as well.
WTC3-4 had many direct paralels to “La Divina Comedia” in some circumstances, and at that, of course, many blatant yet unnamed (a.k.a. non-directly pointed out like the shout-outs for famous mystery works/authors and some otaku stuff) similarities to the whole Jungian’s Collective Unconscious, if you really think about the meta-structure of the plot as a whole and some of its themes.
Full Series Spoiler:
I wonder where would this new one fit in the Kakeraverse by the way (it is said Higurashi was a book in Rokkenjima Prime during a Gameboard/“Bottle-Reading” sequence by Battler, which I always assumed to be the work of Ikuko before the whole “Golden Witch” series based in the Rokkenjima Incident started).
To get as a reference of what I’m talking about, I believe that this famous little panel is probably the most accurate representation of Umineko’s meta-layered structure:
Guess there was no takers for my little game, so I’ll play with myself for a bit.
The Interview quotes
The Title Picture
Image Sound Track with song titles
Sound Drama with Drawings and 4 Characters (each with a 1 sentence quote)
Starting with the Interview:
Although Ryukishi could’ve prepared for some questions beforehand, it was unlikely a setup, therefore we can take his quotes at face value. Hence: If the title When Something Cries gives too much away, then it follows that the Something or Something Crying is either a well known story or the only likely associated story.
The reasoning is that R7 appears to imply that association by name is very likely, so either the reader is already familiar or upon searching the term will not come up with multiple ambiguous possibilities. The reason I say known story, is because giving too much away implies concrete story elements as opposed to loose elements like themes or philosophical outlooks (sorry Arietta). Hence a known story would immediately bring a setting/structure familiar to the reader, I could just say When Romeo Cries and you would immediately envision the R7 adapation of Shakespheare
An example using @Arietta 's crane theory, the Crane/Swan Wife children story is well known (add the space theme) we can get the Crane (alien) gets saved by the MC and sometime during their marriage the crane (alien) is discovered to not be human and flies away (in a UFO)
The next point, setting is not a closed world, but is open. This one is tough as both Higurashi and Umineko had successful formulae for using closed worlds to give characters development and readers more insight over successive loops. I firmly believe that R7 is formulaic and will not abandon this approach because the next point suggests this is still a murder mystery series and there is no better way to character develop victims. Considering that it will likely also be 8 arcs, unless the corpses are persons A-Z, only 1-2 (well developed) victims an arc or the cast is 100 characters it would not work.
So the question becomes, how will R7 make loops in an open world setting? Sadly the best I can come up with is the characters need multiple lives; which means either a reincarnation story over multiple lifetimes (ie. Cloud atlas/spirit circle), no real death (game worlds/virtual reality like Matrix or .HACK), replaceable bodies (possession or robots like Blame! or GITS ) or straight up resurrection (clones, magic, etc)
The last point is quite simple, he’s considering difficulty of interpretation and whether to give definite or open answers. This implies that the story will likely cycle in and out of the concrete story and a fantastical abstract layer, but he hasn’t decided which way to weigh it. Therefore to answer @danpmss there will be meta-layers. However I believe that the structure will differ from the Umineko one, as the game layout is promised to be different then before. The kakera concept should remain as that was already forshadowed by “We’ll meet again when Something Else Cries” and R7 milked his Higurashi foreshadowing into Umineko dry.
Why are you apologizing?
The reagents for another post are coming together for me to synthesize, though this is just to tighten some loose ends. I was going to reply to your original post simultaneously, though ought to add that Sadako’s story is omnipresent in Japan now, and cranes have gained a surge of cultural strength because of WWII. Conflict/military matters are going to be major this time, and the symbol of repentance to never return to a state of nuclear warfare is none other than the crane, a symbol so significant that many temples always accept paper cranes and, from Wikipedia (Olivia could verify this best), “there is a statue of Sadako holding a crane in Hiroshima Peace Park, and every year on Obon day, people leave cranes at the statue in memory of the departed spirits of their ancestors.” That’s absolutely titanic to Japan: WWII is the reason they are as they are today.
Mainly because I have to discard the body of your posts because they wouldn’t fit my interpretation of the clues presented.
If it is When the Crane Cries, I could buy the idea, but you’ll need to present a story prediction to substantiate your hypothesis. Furthermore if possible, integrate the other clues with clear reasoning as support to your story or extensions.
As an addeum to @Rena-Ryuugu I would like to add that the bottom of the track list states (can’t read jap, google translate to eng and chinese):
Odd number tracks are the drama
1 (Organic Automata), 3 (Welcome Punica’s School), 5 (The sister’s names form a pair. This is the value of this song), 7 (The star we love), 9 (Haworthia’s words)
Even number tracks are WTC5 (image?) songs
2 (Rainbow of home sickness?), 4 (pink justice), 6 (Utopia), 8 (Sky of Shunya)
10+ are instrumentals
I might as well give my opinion on the Image Song/Drama CD clue. IMO R7 does not name the songs and leaves it to the artists. The songs are likely freely composed after reading the story as opposed to ordered by detail (as they feel like they are based on the artist’s impression of the scenes). Based on the OP songs and lyrics from umineko, I would guess that R7 let the artists read all 4 question arcs first, but didn’t give them any answers. Hence the names of the songs and tones shouldn’t be seen as Ryukishi’s work, but rather the response to reading his work. From this hypothesis, I would oppose the “play” idea @Pandora and take the literal impression that the Returning to our Home star from Space story to be one of the integral parts of the plot.
I accept disagreement; it’s the engine of ascension.
I disagree with the need to substantiate a theory through rigid examples. Predictability requires observation for confirmation and is thus meaningless to seek during a speculative period. I concede that there is not enough information for inference and thus rationalize your demand as a fool’s errand - I can say any story and ad lib metaphor/symbolism/analogues as substitutes (crane->alien) and it’d fit. It seems like, ultimately, a non-sequitur. Even appeasing your demand, I’ve mentioned its significance several times. Obviousness is only obviousness after the fact. I’ll continue my analyses while keeping in mind that the crane does have well-known legends in the eastern canon, the audience Ryukishi targets first, which I have stated numerous times.
But if the author gives out clues in successive steps does that not imply that both a solvable answer exists and the clue giver hopes that the receiver will attempt to solve it? 
There’s some reply in your Umineko, good sir 
This is indeed Ryukishi’s style of doing his mystery stuff. And he sure loves the Massive Multireader Online Theory Crafting Game (“MMOTCG”… not the YuGiOh! kind though) that comes with it every single time. He is an awesome GameMaster haha
Though in my opinion these are just side clues he is throwing around, more related to the themes and characters than the actual mystery solving. But still, not to be overlooked.
I really like your theory @Arietta, it’s really well thought out and in line within the mythology and folklore surrounding the cranes! Given the soundtrack previews involved as well and in their connection to cranes was very nicely written and quite cleverly put together! I’m starting to side with you on the aspect this may very well be “Tanchozuru no naku koro ni” (When the Cranes Cry) with the released information.
However I see your hand and raise one of my own in regard to Hashibuto (Jungle Crow) being the animal we may indeed see in the name as well. (Or neither! I’m very interested to see the name revealed soon! I’m betting that Ryukishi has come up with a name no one could guess…or could we?)
In any case…
Taking all the context of the released information, they are still a good as a fit as the cranes.
The first point, Hashibuto are a bird of contrast of sacred spirituality and civilization. Yatagarasu, a sacred three legged jungle crow, is considered a solar-core kami and is enshrined and worshipped at Kumano shrines. Jungle crows themselves are also seen as the divine animal messengers of Amaterasu Omikami-sama, the sun kami and also ruler of the heavens. They have a very divine, solar, and natural connection.
At the same time - they’re also considered a nuisance, disease carriers, no better than how the Western world may view rats. They rip open garbage bags, destroy gardens, carry diseases, and have a haunting cry that seems to laugh at you. The Jungle crow is in this threshold between sacred and mundane. A theme of thresholds is also there and could indicate the contrast between humanity and nature (a common theme in Yatagarasu mythos as well - as Yatagarasu both guides humanity and also destroys humanity - solar flares threatening all technology on Earth is seen as a modern sign of Yatagarasu’s and thus the Jungle Crow’s symbol and connection to us as a species)
This would give away the story as well to a Japanese speakers since Jungle crows are infamous both as a deity (kami) and also a city nuisance and mundane creature, an animal of the threshold between divine and man. And also it’s famous cawing sounding like mocking/laughing.
It’s a very direct name moreso than cranes in that sense as well which carries a more symbolic sense - but it could be argued cranes can have a direct meaning as well.
The titles of the CD track I feel tie into the divine aspects of the Jungle Crow - Amaterasu Omikami-sama is also known as a rainbow kami (because of the sun’s light after rain creates rainbows) and thus connected to the crow as well. Pink Justice is a little vague (back to that in a minute), but Utopia could allude to the famous myth of Yatagarasu leading Emperor Jinmu to the “utopia” of Yamato (ancient Japan).
The Star we Loved could be a reference to the Sun itself. Sky of Shunyata is a very interesting title as “Shunyata” is a Buddhist term referring to the void, emptiness, releasing all thoughts. If we take the sky of shunyata to the meaning of kind of a sky that is like a vast void - like space - we have that solar conection as well, as well as the ability in current folklore of Yatagarasu to end/decimate humanity’s advancements via the power of the sun.
Rebirth of Blue could be symbolising into the dawn, how the sun rises and a new day is “born” into a blue sky. At the end of of a wish could be in reference to prayers towards the deity at the shrine.
Back to Pink Justice, I feel this is moreso for Motoki Punica Granatum and who her character as a whole is into the story and relating to the song - (by her hair really).
Now, while these connections to Yatagarasu and thus the jungle crow can be made, in truth I think the song titles tie directly into the plot itself - not the animal which creates the atmosphere of the story itself in the name. (Vague spoilers) After all, cicadas were only an atmospheric animal in regard to the horror of Higurashi - their symbolism into the actual story doesn’t have any regard. The same goes for seagulls. They are an atmospheric animal, but there is no symbolism of seagulls in Japan that tie into the events of Umineko no naku koro ni.
Considering the teaser was a Dubai skyline as well as an open world, I don’t really know if Ryukishi would choose animals like the crane or jungle crow so connected to Japan and Japanese folklore. However it is possible and I really enjoyed reading your theory Arietta and it was very well thought out!
As a whole for the series, listening to the drama CD it really did sound like a play or performance of sorts. Drama CDs tend to play out as more atmospheric conversational, as if listening to an anime without watching it. But the language used in the first track was definitely performance announcement-style Japanese, not language, or even announcements from a machine or radio, or something as such. It brought me back to memories of watching a play in Japanese or a performance on stage, truthfully speaking. However this is simply my speculation and experience. Perhaps it was done on purpose for a plot point - it’s not to say the entire characters are simply in a play. We will have to see the truth when it comes out. There isn’t enough information to say if it is or not at the moment, I feel.
Now that being said if it is truly a space theme it could tie directly from Trianthology from the only story Ryukishi wrote in that, Vespio 2438 which is a story about a world in a faraway future. Mankind and anthropoid ape aliens, the Garrothe, had their first civilizational exchange by waging war on each other in space. As they each launched their first space armada, the first 90 seconds of the war cost them no less than 200 quadrillion UE$ in destruction That’s how that grand first war opened. After that shock, both sides agreed on a ceasefire, putting on hold any kind of battle in space. However, no peace agreement could be reached, and the truce was soon broken. Both sides decided to wage war not in space, but directly on the enemy’s planet… On the Japanese archipelago, the area of the capital Tokyo was stuck in a long tug-of-war battle. Falco’s 101st infantry unit was once again launching an attack
This is directly related to the Drama CD with the air of it’s setting as well as the characters themselves. They’re not directly in the same story, but they could definitely fit into a similar world.
considering Ryukishi likes to tie his previous work into the next, and considering Alice is a voyager witch, like our fellows Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, she may very well be present in WTC5
So it could very well be we are dealing with a true space-like story or science fiction type story and not simply a play, or perhaps a play within this setting that has a more organic overtone as well.
In any case, my overall thoughts run out here unless prompted, since there is probably more I want to think about as more is released - and hoping to get a copy of Haworthia to listen through.
All I can say is I’m getting the vibes/keywords of: Humanity and Nature, Science Fiction or perhaps technological advancements, Flora and fauna, the natural world, the manmade world…and so on. The story in Trianthology touches on those themes too.
Regarding the recent tweets relaying Ryuukishi’s words about WTC5: I’m keeping an open mind since Ryuukishi already said that WTC5 would be completely different from Higurashi and Umineko. Still, I can’t help but notice that a “concrete jungle” seems non-conducive to mysteries, since I take it as referring to physical locations that are so complicated you’re not expected to know how many sub-areas they contain, how they connect, and what they could plausibly contain. Then again, maybe that’s only half the stage, and part of the story will be set in a more precisely laid out area like a private estate near or within a city. What I personally want most in WTC5 isn’t (Umineko Episode 2 spoiler) time loops or murder mysteries, it’s intricate detail regarding both the character dynamic and the sequence of meaningful events that I expect to take place.
(I was originally going to post this in the news thread, but I thought it might fit here better since it’s largely speculation about WTC5.)
Keep in mind that Higurashi was never a closed room mystery series, that’s unique to Umineko. I don’t expect to see any closed rooms in WTC5.
Oh, definitely. Although Higurashi didn’t have closed room mysteries, it did have mysteries in the broader sense of having odd things happen which encouraged you to speculate about them. If WTC5 has a focus on mysteries, as I hope it does, I feel like it could benefit more from locations with intricate detail, and less from a concrete jungle which wiktionary defines as involving a “high density of buildings”. To me, it doesn’t even matter whether there are murders, or whether it’s an open world or closed one, but I really did like all the elegantly delineated locations in Hinamizawa/Shirakawa-go, to say nothing of Rokkenjima which can be practically mapped.
I think open world by definition prevents you from establishing a familiar locale setting, unless there is a base of operations that is continuously returned to.
My impression is that in the original tweet, “open” is contrasted with the term closed circle which refers to people being unable to leave or exit a location. If that’s the case, perhaps “open world” is just another way of saying that WTC5 doesn’t center around a single location that people are trapped within. So that wouldn’t stop WTC5 from, for example, largely centering around a building like the Rokkenjima mansion, as long as it’s not isolated and people can freely leave or go.
If the clue was taken in isolation that would be true, however consider that Haworthia is one of the possible outcomes of Ryukishi’s new game board (and I will assume he keeps the gameboard concept). At most you could have a base, like a spaceship or “the end of time” (or outside the board) that would be a consistent locale between scenarios.
Mmmh… I find it very difficult to make any guesses. If the differences between Higurashi and Umineko are any indication, then Ryukishi makes it a point to use very contrasting narrative choices, genres and themes. If I want to focus only on the parts they have in common, then the only sure aspects that make a “When they Cry” story a “When they Cry” story, than we have these:
That’s essentially all I can say for sure.
Looking at the pictures and reading the hints… I cannot help but think that Ryukishi got his ideas when writing the Lucia route for Rewrite. Which was amazing, I have to say, but… I must admit that it also makes me very anxious. I hated the ending of Rewrite and hated its ‘aesop’ with every fibre of my being. If Ryukishi wants to fix that ending with his own Sci-Fi story, I would rejoice, but there is this sense of dread that he might share Romeo Tanakas cynical view on mankind’s future.
Hell, I’m just saying what Ryukishi does best is adhering to that famous William Faulkner quote “The problems of the human heart in conflict with itself alone can make good writing because only that is worth writing about, worth the agony and the sweat.”. His characters have heart. And seeing them agonizing about their actions makes them real and human. I am just not so sure that he can do political commentary just as well. For that reason I found Rose Guns Days very hard to stomach…
